Re: [Tools-discuss] mailing lists don't add "Archived-At"?

Robert Sparks <> Tue, 20 July 2021 21:52 UTC

Return-Path: <>
Received: from localhost (localhost []) by (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F5E03A33BE for <>; Tue, 20 Jul 2021 14:52:30 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.08
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.08 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, T_SPF_HELO_PERMERROR=0.01, T_SPF_TEMPERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key)
Received: from ([]) by localhost ( []) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dX2KKyt2Yn8O for <>; Tue, 20 Jul 2021 14:52:25 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from ( [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5B4A73A33BC for <>; Tue, 20 Jul 2021 14:52:25 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from unformal.localdomain ([]) (authenticated bits=0) by (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTPSA id 16KLqKZ5061612 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 20 Jul 2021 16:52:21 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple;; s=default; t=1626817941; bh=Mh8ed2/SW/H4f84Q6YaDDF3b8NGPs4IplwjRh9oN90U=; h=To:References:From:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To; b=Ail9VqB08xwI+4Er1i37aFA4tAF1g42ZY4YIIAqwbeE1Xp/bVeu+JEXZkxKjLSZw/ WPIoi/dSeBZ37aNSfuNV+np0f23wixvLUDifPfzDb8mimvJxGrBkEOalUOI7eS5P44 V70JB+VS0sVOo5R/D1AmbpSTVeYod8bJdtRHtRj4=
X-Authentication-Warning: Host [] claimed to be unformal.localdomain
To: tools-discuss <>, Glen <>
References: <000d01d77da9$a7b745b0$f725d110$>
From: Robert Sparks <>
Message-ID: <>
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2021 16:52:15 -0500
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.12.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <000d01d77da9$a7b745b0$f725d110$>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Language: en-US
Archived-At: <>
Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] mailing lists don't add "Archived-At"?
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion <>
List-Unsubscribe: <>, <>
List-Archive: <>
List-Post: <>
List-Help: <>
List-Subscribe: <>, <>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2021 21:52:31 -0000

On 7/20/21 3:56 PM, Glen wrote:
> Hello Lars -
> I haven't seen any replies, so, speaking only as the operator for both the
> IETF and the RFC-Editor, I will try to answer those questions for you.
>> From: Lars Eggert <>
>> Subject: [Tools-discuss] mailing lists don't add
> "Archived-At"?
>> Am I correct in my understanding that mailing lists don't
> add
>> "Archived-At" headers?
> You are correct.
>> Also, are there any other lists that "we" host that don't add
> "Archived-At" headers?
> No, there are no lists we (the IETF) host that don't add those headers.  The
> IETF currently hosts all of its list on its central server grid, across
> several domains, and they all have that header added.  In the case of the
> IETF, the Archived-At headers are added as one of the many functions of the
> IETF's custom Postconfirm program, which interfaces with the IETF's custom
> Mail Archive tool.  Both of those tools are IETF-owned products, and
> deployed on the IETF servers, providing those custom features to the IETF
> and the lists it runs.
> (As an aside, the IETF also provides "mirrors" of some external lists'
> archives, wherein we are not the primary provider of the list, but our
> archive system is just "subscribed" to that external list as a member.
> Those messages do not have the Archived-At header added to them, because the
> list messages come from an external source, and feed directly into the IETF
> Mail Archive, without actually being "processed" by the IETF mail chain.)
> But "We the IETF" don't actually host the RFC Editor mailing lists.  Those
> lists are hosted on the RFC-Editor's servers, and are used by the Editor
> staff, and operated by the RFC-Editor.   The custom systems used by the IETF
> are not deployed on or used by the RFC-Editor's servers in any way.   The
> RFC-Editor deployment is just a "normal" Mailman instance, with the normal
> Mailman archives.

Are there any other sets of mailing lists in the halo of 
domains/services that someone might expect to be accessible via the 
imap/mailarchive interfaces that currently aren't?

I think all of the IAB and IRTF lists are available. What's missing 
other than the rfc-editor lists?

>> Could we add that?
> Anything is possible given appropriate circumstances, and there are
> different approaches we could take.   I believe that the primary concerns
> are keeping the RFC-Editor's systems severable, and not disrupting the
> operations of the RFC Production Center or their staff.
> With that in mind, one approach might be to develop custom code for the
> RFC-Editor Mailman instance which would put a more-or-less generic
> Archived-At header into the messages that go through the list.  As a simple
> example, an Archived-at header could be added which points to the monthly
> index for the message, as in
> .   That would
> require, I guess, an RFP from the IETF?  RFC-Editor?, and could be deployed
> (I would hope) in a reasonably non-invasive way to the RFC-Editor servers.
> Other approaches no doubt exist, but this would be the simplest one I could
> think of.
>> PS: I also see that mailing lists are not searchable via
>> mailarchive. That also seems like a feature we'd want.
> I'm given to understand that the primary public lists, RFC-DIST, and
> RFC-INTEREST, should be searchable.  They are certainly browse-able, at
> and
>  .  For those, we
> took the same approach we took with other external lists, and we just do an
> external feed into the IETF Mail Archive.  The primary archives are, of
> course, still on the RFC-Editor server, but the IETF Mail Archive does have
> the full copies available as shown above.   If there are other lists that
> the RFC-Editor wants to share across, setting that up would be trivial.
> I hope this information is helpful, please feel free to contact me directly
> if you have any additional questions, and I will always do whatever I can to
> assist!
> Glen
> --
> Glen Barney
> IT Director
> AMS (IETF and RPC Secretariat)
> ___________________________________________________________
> Tools-discuss mailing list -
> This list is for discussion, not for action requests or bug reports.
> * Report datatracker and mailarchive bugs to:
> * Report bugs to:
> * Report all other bugs or issues to:
> List info (including how to Unsubscribe):