Re: [Tools-discuss] Expired draft on the w.g. status pages [was Re: disappearing IDs on www.ietf.org]
Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> Fri, 11 September 2020 22:48 UTC
Return-Path: <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81D943A0BDF for <tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 11 Sep 2020 15:48:05 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -3.046
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.046 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.948, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xEzvRCL_bD_v for <tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 11 Sep 2020 15:48:03 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-pl1-x62e.google.com (mail-pl1-x62e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::62e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D3A433A0141 for <tools-discuss@ietf.org>; Fri, 11 Sep 2020 15:48:03 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-pl1-x62e.google.com with SMTP id bd2so1557405plb.7 for <tools-discuss@ietf.org>; Fri, 11 Sep 2020 15:48:03 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=gkhsP2kB0jgj3MJ6f13Y95pHetQV5Gi/Q8odd9IRlwk=; b=EIQr/fj+fIaiE20AqTDiCD7bL3BDZ0v63yP2sA3c/azadS/U5Y4XgsOBNHP20a2FLf wFJ/NJHbi9iZK1G39kYBriMEdIfpXDjD+OOpKT8z9RI7roZlRczOl6gEZWvCK/qP/8dj 44fpF+bF+yWGnE/ergCiTTbf9xnfCZ8QcyjJsv615qHkWa7CZH8UmBQoG4+U4d6XLPA7 Tc/5z7NlVKkI5reGdknEPGF94TEgB3j4z0yKXse4hjlXlhBrIwParsVJoWcNhM2TjB2w E5HtDzl7ZUaB+Ty9XGjkPDMtUSYrKDuO9SHscu7Db8cCWhR1jBkj1tGDTmTaywiy+fRT H7gw==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=gkhsP2kB0jgj3MJ6f13Y95pHetQV5Gi/Q8odd9IRlwk=; b=jDOHJJQtTyp7QzAB7J67DtdnysLo8kW786XAt1sBABI1DsccNcHM5ofE5K+sBNUxit T08/iwF+zsxbVAvh4wZkLav5kyEIeF9sOGQxkg+bwXa/+X9HkHqk3EmVtBRhTF72tqda Y8I3Xv5A6+fd4AmX6xcuQNNB96dS9ZxzIYWlTGQDFPGkVpkeRnhSow07OUhT4WmfgvA1 +rEnxxJRplXxY2GhKzKds2crWQgZ773BuCj53ctZIFHrU1tuR8Ji/9OTy0UfbmGDr7zM 3OYLw44Fg1hGc5F87kYxUJVGlgiv0krtF3iTuTEvHik6aDYrH+y6DnpJnB8o9btCwjje +LvA==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532wLqOt3FRHrqcVKZtgsLf5GsQJ2jvXHPBeUX1tgA2wkmUiWDSE RbQePGXSMdcdLq+9iq0FZDn3fDrnTqc=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxi/RyywMlrIyeYa0q+mVhDSXpXo7vnCpxtmySzptmB/lSD+3bBbV1fBAfs1u2/KPyYW9VmPw==
X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:ee15:: with SMTP id z21mr4316400plb.103.1599864483062; Fri, 11 Sep 2020 15:48:03 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [192.168.178.20] ([151.210.138.136]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id np1sm2660446pjb.2.2020.09.11.15.48.00 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 11 Sep 2020 15:48:02 -0700 (PDT)
To: Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>, Russ Housley <housley@vigilsec.com>, Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com>, Tools Team Discussion <tools-discuss@ietf.org>
References: <8657.1599751932@localhost> <84c8d593-c7b6-4327-338f-9b2b0e7a36e0@levkowetz.com> <0C6D4DE2-F9F3-4C7C-8427-264F34C8C2B7@tzi.org> <26d795d2-3761-2950-4346-62f849d86eed@nostrum.com> <7792.1599768579@localhost> <C73D6AB9-694E-458E-AEEE-45DBDEF623C5@vigilsec.com> <3B281EED-CDCE-4025-8C78-7BA689490936@tzi.org> <5B0C691F-EA59-44E9-959F-52445CA58314@gmail.com> <41EEFFCD-DEB9-4950-95B1-F43ACC73CAF1@vigilsec.com> <2F82E43A-39CF-4C99-BE9E-CD84D2BE21B3@gmail.com> <C44C644D-C24A-4839-BB61-F758AA2D7BF1@vigilsec.com> <32320.1599851864@localhost>
From: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <303b64bd-548a-1a3f-cc6d-ebcd4e534cfa@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2020 10:47:59 +1200
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.1
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <32320.1599851864@localhost>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Language: en-US
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tools-discuss/0IpBXYfkjcwgLzcMHaAyeMGPN4s>
Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Expired draft on the w.g. status pages [was Re: disappearing IDs on www.ietf.org]
X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion <tools-discuss.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/tools-discuss>, <mailto:tools-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/tools-discuss/>
List-Post: <mailto:tools-discuss@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:tools-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss>, <mailto:tools-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2020 22:48:06 -0000
On 12-Sep-20 07:17, Michael Richardson wrote: > > Russ Housley <housley@vigilsec.com> wrote: > >>> There is no need for an additional call for adoption. When the revision is posted, it will appear in the list. > >> > >> I knew that, but I would like to see w.g. drafts not time out on the w.g. status page. Once adopted they have official status. I think we do this for drafts sent to the IESG. > > > I disagree. If the I-D has expired, it should not be shown there. > > We are asking that it be in the list, marked as expired. > Chairs can remove it from the list, if it is abandonned. > Otherwise, they can bug authors to either update, or abandon. Yes. Robert's note on the ticket is correct. A common case (I've experienced it as an author quite recently) is that WG discussion has subsided, the draft is probably not ready for WGLC, and the authors have had other priorities. The expiry event is useful because it wakes up the authors and chairs, but the document needs to stay visible until a decision is taken to update it, do the WGLC as-is, or abandon it. (Actually there are other options: in my case, the decision was to fold the material into another WG draft. But the whole point is to avoid *accidental* loss of the draft.) Brian
- [Tools-discuss] disappearing IDs on www.ietf.org Michael Richardson
- Re: [Tools-discuss] disappearing IDs on www.ietf.… Henrik Levkowetz
- Re: [Tools-discuss] disappearing IDs on www.ietf.… Michael Richardson
- Re: [Tools-discuss] disappearing IDs on www.ietf.… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [Tools-discuss] disappearing IDs on www.ietf.… Robert Sparks
- Re: [Tools-discuss] disappearing IDs on www.ietf.… Michael Richardson
- Re: [Tools-discuss] disappearing IDs on www.ietf.… Robert Sparks
- Re: [Tools-discuss] disappearing IDs on www.ietf.… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Tools-discuss] disappearing IDs on www.ietf.… Russ Housley
- Re: [Tools-discuss] disappearing IDs on www.ietf.… Carsten Bormann
- [Tools-discuss] Expired draft on the w.g. status … Bob Hinden
- Re: [Tools-discuss] disappearing IDs on www.ietf.… Julian Reschke
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Expired draft on the w.g. sta… Russ Housley
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Expired draft on the w.g. sta… Bob Hinden
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Expired draft on the w.g. sta… Robert Sparks
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Expired draft on the w.g. sta… Robert Sparks
- Re: [Tools-discuss] disappearing IDs on www.ietf.… Michael Richardson
- Re: [Tools-discuss] disappearing IDs on www.ietf.… Michael Richardson
- Re: [Tools-discuss] disappearing IDs on www.ietf.… Robert Sparks
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Expired draft on the w.g. sta… Bob Hinden
- Re: [Tools-discuss] disappearing IDs on www.ietf.… Bob Hinden
- Re: [Tools-discuss] disappearing IDs on www.ietf.… Robert Sparks
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Expired draft on the w.g. sta… Russ Housley
- Re: [Tools-discuss] disappearing IDs on www.ietf.… Michael Richardson
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Expired draft on the w.g. sta… Michael Richardson
- Re: [Tools-discuss] disappearing IDs on www.ietf.… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Expired draft on the w.g. sta… Brian E Carpenter
- [Tools-discuss] Expiry Doctrine (Re: Expired draf… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Expiry Doctrine (Re: Expired … Robert Sparks
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Expiry Doctrine (Re: Expired … Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Expiry Doctrine (Re: Expired … Carsten Bormann
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Expiry Doctrine (Re: Expired … Michael Richardson
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Expiry Doctrine (Re: Expired … Michael Richardson
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Expiry Doctrine (Re: Expired … Julian Reschke
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Expiry Doctrine (Re: Expired … Robert Sparks
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Expiry Doctrine (Re: Expired … Carsten Bormann
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Expiry Doctrine (Re: Expired … Robert Sparks
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Expiry Doctrine (Re: Expired … Carsten Bormann
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Expiry Doctrine (Re: Expired … Robert Sparks
- Re: [Tools-discuss] disappearing IDs on www.ietf.… Nico Williams
- Re: [Tools-discuss] disappearing IDs on www.ietf.… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [Tools-discuss] disappearing IDs on www.ietf.… Nico Williams
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Expiry Doctrine (Re: Expired … Michael Richardson
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Expiry Doctrine (Re: Expired … Julian Reschke
- Re: [Tools-discuss] disappearing IDs on www.ietf.… Michael Richardson
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Expiry Doctrine (Re: Expired … S Moonesamy
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Expiry Doctrine (Re: Expired … Julian Reschke
- [Tools-discuss] it is worse than I thought: (was … Michael Richardson
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Expiry Doctrine (Re: Expired … worley
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Expiry Doctrine (Re: Expired … Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Expiry Doctrine (Re: Expired … Joe Touch
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Expiry Doctrine (Re: Expired … Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Expiry Doctrine (Re: Expired … Joseph Touch
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Expiry Doctrine (Re: Expired … Carsten Bormann
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Expiry Doctrine (Re: Expired … Joe Touch
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Expiry Doctrine (Re: Expired … Carsten Bormann
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Expiry Doctrine (Re: Expired … Joseph Touch
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Expiry Doctrine (Re: Expired … Paul Hoffman