Re: [Tools-discuss] datatracker, I-Ds, and email addresses

Robert Sparks <rjsparks@nostrum.com> Wed, 31 May 2023 13:38 UTC

Return-Path: <rjsparks@nostrum.com>
X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95814C151B2F for <tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 31 May 2023 06:38:13 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.076
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.076 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, T_SPF_HELO_PERMERROR=0.01, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, URIBL_DBL_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, URIBL_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nostrum.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aQWYZIboxIip for <tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 31 May 2023 06:38:09 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7EDC0C151B2C for <tools-discuss@ietf.org>; Wed, 31 May 2023 06:38:09 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [192.168.1.102] ([47.186.48.51]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.17.1/8.17.1) with ESMTPSA id 34VDc4wt018171 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO) for <tools-discuss@ietf.org>; Wed, 31 May 2023 08:38:07 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from rjsparks@nostrum.com)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nostrum.com; s=default; t=1685540288; bh=CYJUdDvD3VE0EJwjc/tuVGesze9Jrfy+pOWOQsB+l28=; h=Date:To:References:From:Subject:In-Reply-To; b=uY4mARwdnMm+1oAvAtH8IqWit3y7kg/7WUEV2Tz3fU4i0avqfjh5BumMB90uFTnyl HNdxK4Cw8ZVB/m+jr/r25uBJQcS0gQZEWapcni6X1muLcV/3pc0H9eiGXLa0ddBPQb O1ZSAoymtrHSQCL3uA2909siGWPKsBT9rXN71Kd8=
X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host [47.186.48.51] claimed to be [192.168.1.102]
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------r8DDrAmtWD4QMT6tAHSMK5zT"
Message-ID: <759ff75a-9334-53ce-8348-e22c14a84509@nostrum.com>
Date: Wed, 31 May 2023 08:37:59 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.11.1
Content-Language: en-US
To: tools-discuss@ietf.org
References: <CF14A35ABED1122EC614AF81@PSB> <0298e627-b433-4ecb-0c29-cd395079de6e@gmail.com> <D94D78B548161F0ECFD69111@PSB> <17FA35AD-F786-48B0-8EC5-46A8EFAD90E0@ietf.org> <a6ba4484-e3b6-613c-69b0-e570cb339b4b@gmail.com> <8742D52A-A3C7-42FB-98E8-B83BC930DB6D@ietf.org>
From: Robert Sparks <rjsparks@nostrum.com>
In-Reply-To: <8742D52A-A3C7-42FB-98E8-B83BC930DB6D@ietf.org>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tools-discuss/6LOBNzh-a27hEyvDYw9MYRg6Jcw>
Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] datatracker, I-Ds, and email addresses
X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.39
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion <tools-discuss.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/tools-discuss>, <mailto:tools-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/tools-discuss/>
List-Post: <mailto:tools-discuss@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:tools-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss>, <mailto:tools-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 31 May 2023 13:38:13 -0000

The Primary address is the user's choice. An address is never made 
Primary except by the user.

When the datatracker sends mail, it uses the Primary if it has been set, 
and the most recent "Active" email address if it hasn't.

(See 
https://github.com/ietf-tools/datatracker/blob/f8e18991084704494863506fcd2e756efc2abc2a/ietf/person/models.py#L141-L147 
if you're curious).

As Jay notes, there are many ways the datatracker can associate an email 
with a person.

RjS


On 5/31/23 4:48 AM, Jay Daley wrote:
>
>
>> On 30 May 2023, at 22:42, Brian E Carpenter 
>> <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> On 30-May-23 21:35, Jay Daley wrote:
>>> John
>>> Are you suggesting that when an I-D is submitted, the email 
>>> addresses of the authors are automagically added to their 
>>> Datatracker profiles, even if they themselves omitted to do that?
>>
>> Looking at my own profile, my primary address is listed as
>>
>> "brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com author: draft-ietf-6man-rfc6874bis"
>>
>> which strongly suggests that the DT actively tracks submissions, 
>> since that
>> is the draft that's been (re)submitted most recently.
>
> So you haven’t provided that any other way, say when registering for a 
> meeting?
>
> Jay
>
>>
>> But the *primary* address is presumably user-choice?
>>
>>   Brian
>>
>>> Jay
>>>> On 28 May 2023, at 01:36, John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Brian,
>>>>
>>>> Yes, typo.  Sorry.
>>>>
>>>> And, yes, I can imagine such a heuristic.  At the same time, if
>>>> that most recent RFCs is decades old and the (new) I-D is fully
>>>> posted, it seems to be that a competent heuristic would either
>>>> go with the information in the I-D or point the inconsistency
>>>> out and ask for human assistance.   (FWIW, I am not able to
>>>> figure out what it would mean to identify an I-D as less than
>>>> fully posted when the announcement had bee sent to
>>>> IETF-announce, the datatracker page was up, and the document was
>>>> online in the places that both specified, all of which are the
>>>> case here.)
>>>>
>>>> best,
>>>>   john
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --On Sunday, May 28, 2023 11:53 +1200 Brian E Carpenter
>>>> <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> To avoid confusion, I think you mean RFC 2693.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'd guess that we are dealing with a heuristic for the case
>>>>> where
>>>>> the DT profile is incomplete. "Use the most recent RFC" might
>>>>> appear safer than "use the most recent I-D" in some lights.
>>>>> Or maybe "use the most recent I-D" won't work before the I-D
>>>>> has been fully posted.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards
>>>>>    Brian
>>>>>
>>>>> On 28-May-23 11:24, John C Klensin wrote:
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Until very recently, I assumed that the email addresses shown
>>>>>> in the Datatracker, particularly those shown on the home
>>>>>> pages for various I-Ds, would be the most up-to-date ones we
>>>>>> had except, possibly, for old I-Ds where they might reflect
>>>>>> the addresses shown as Author Address information in those
>>>>>> I-Ds.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That does not appear to be the case.   If one examines
>>>>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-rivest-sexp/
>>>>>> an address is shown for the first author, Ronald L. Rivest, of
>>>>>> rivest@theory.lcs.mit.edu.  His datatracker page does not show
>>>>>> any email addresses at all.  RFC 1186 (October 1990) shows
>>>>>> that address under Author's Addresses as does RFC 2593
>>>>>> (September 1999).  But that address has been dead, or at least
>>>>>> not-preferred, since at least July 2003 when LCS was merged
>>>>>> into CSAIL and MIT, IIR, was already strongly preferring
>>>>>> user@mit.edu styles of email addresses over
>>>>>> user@department-or-lab.mit.edu ones before I left about a
>>>>>> decade earlier.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In any event, the Authors' Addresses section of
>>>>>> draft-rivest-sexp-00 shows the correct current email address,
>>>>>> rivest@mit.edu.  Why is the datatracker picking up, and
>>>>>> showing on that I-D page, a two decade-old address rather
>>>>>> than the one in an I-D posted a couple of days ago?  And,
>>>>>> especially assuming that there might be other instances of
>>>>>> similar relationships, can this be fixed and fixed more
>>>>>> generally than patching that particular page (although that
>>>>>> would be good too)?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>       thanks
>>>>>>        john
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ___________________________________________________________
>>>>>> Tools-discuss mailing list - Tools-discuss@ietf.org -
>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ___________________________________________________________
>>>> Tools-discuss mailing list - Tools-discuss@ietf.org - 
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss
>>> -- 
>>> Jay Daley
>>> IETF Executive Director
>>> exec-director@ietf.org
>
> -- 
> Jay Daley
> IETF Executive Director
> exec-director@ietf.org
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________
> Tools-discuss mailing list -Tools-discuss@ietf.org  -https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss