Re: [Tools-discuss] pages numbers in ToC in PDF

Toerless Eckert <tte@cs.fau.de> Fri, 28 May 2021 00:01 UTC

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Date: Fri, 28 May 2021 02:01:16 +0200
From: Toerless Eckert <tte@cs.fau.de>
To: Jay Daley <jay@ietf.org>
Cc: Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>, Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org>, tools-discuss@ietf.org
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Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] pages numbers in ToC in PDF
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Indeed. Thats what i said at one of those "pontification about future of RFC series structure"
meeetings we had (before your time ?):  Just start with disclaimers.

To cut a good compromise between "can not be overread" and "does not clutter up the doc",
probably always have only a short paragraph followed by a URL for more info if needed
(htttps://www.ietf.org/rfc-faq/42)...

Chers
    Toerless


On Fri, May 28, 2021 at 11:41:31AM +1200, Jay Daley wrote:
> 
> 
> > On 28/05/2021, at 9:13 AM, Toerless Eckert <tte@cs.fau.de> wrote:
> > 
> > I would not put it past lazy research article writers to never read
> > a document but simply look at the TOC to find whatever section looks
> > like a good reference - and never read any of the doc. But i am saying
> > this after the last decade has seen various high ranking erman government
> > officials loose their jobs after their PhD thesis where shown to be
> > stlen or otherwise severely sub-par.
> > 
> > All i can do is upgrade my proposed disclaimer in paginated rendering to "yelling":
> > 
> > Eg. at beginning of TOC of paginated document:
> > 
> > PLEASE DO NOT USE REFERENCES TO PAGE NUMBERS. THEY ARE PART OF THIS RENDERING FORMAT
> > BUT THEY ARE NOT GUARANTEED TO BE THE SAME ACROSS DIFFERENT RENDERING FORMATS.
> 
> Perhaps a "Referencing this document" section needs to be part of the boilerplate of all RFCs and I-Ds.  The former can address this issue of multiple renderings, page numbering and referencing sections; the latter can address the issue of I-Ds not representing the IETF.
> 
> Jay
> 
> > 
> > Cheers
> >    toerless
> > 
> >>> "References into this document MUST NOT use page numbers. Any page
> >>> numbers are rendering specific artefacts, not part of the document
> >>> itself".
> > 
> > On Thu, May 27, 2021 at 04:11:25PM -0400, Michael Richardson wrote:
> >> 
> >> Toerless Eckert <tte@cs.fau.de> wrote:
> >>> For third-party document i would be happy to have a new disclaimer
> >>> added to each RFC rendering that includes page numbers:
> >> 
> >>> "References into this document MUST NOT use page numbers. Any page
> >>> numbers are rendering specific artefacts, not part of the document
> >>> itself".
> >> 
> >> Sure.
> >> 
> >> I'm okay if we show the ToC, in CoAP-option like way, so each line just has:
> >> 
> >>    Bananas ............... 0
> >>    Green Peppers ......... +4
> >>    Tomatoes .............. +3
> >> 
> >> {not a serious suggestion}
> >> 
> >> But, as long as the PDF has page numbers, then people can reference page XXX.
> >> Whether or not the ToC has them doesn't matter.
> >> 
> >> 
> >> --
> >> Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>   . o O ( IPv6 IøT consulting )
> >>           Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > ---
> > tte@cs.fau.de <mailto:tte@cs.fau.de>
> > 
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> 
> -- 
> Jay Daley
> IETF Executive Director
> jay@ietf.org
> 

-- 
---
tte@cs.fau.de