Re: [Tools-discuss] Expiry Doctrine (Re: Expired draft on the w.g. status pages [was Re: disappearing IDs on www.ietf.org])
Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca> Sun, 13 September 2020 00:28 UTC
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From: Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>
To: Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org>, Russ Housley <housley@vigilsec.com>, Tools Team Discussion <tools-discuss@ietf.org>
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Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2020 20:28:33 -0400
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Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Expiry Doctrine (Re: Expired draft on the w.g. status pages [was Re: disappearing IDs on www.ietf.org])
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Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org> wrote: > A little Saturday metacomment: Were you in the shower again today, to have such deep thoughts? > What actually happens is that URLs for Internet-Drafts are generated by > various pieces of software (email, web pages) and propagate into other > places. At the time they are first generated, these Internet-Drafts > are not expired yet. The expiry doctrine makes us delete the data > behind these URLs at expiry time, making the URLs we use for > Internet-Drafts *unstable* URIs. > The archive can be addressed by *stable* URIs, but these are not the > ones generated during the pre-expiry usage of Internet-Drafts. Stable > URIs need to be generated manually, which mostly does not happen at the > time the URIs propagate into various places. +1 > By making expiry (and replacement) a dynamic *property* of a draft. > (Note that there is text in each draft that describes the current value > of this property based on the current date — this text is actually more > likely untrue than true, and this has caused all kinds of problems with > people taking the text at face value. Instead it should point to a > resource where the true current state can be ascertained.) Since the draft knows when it expires, maybe it could mark itself. As, I don't really want to put in JS into HTML generated WG drafts, I wonder how to do this with CSS. A simple way I can think of is to reference some CSS file that includes the date of expiry.... [oh my I didn't know we import google hosted fonts] And there is JS in there already. Oh. Unhappy face. Do HTML generated RFCs have JS in them? Anyway, I had mind something like: <link href="202009.css" rel="stylesheet" type="text/css"> which would go into every draft issues in September, and six months after 2020-09-30, would make the draft have an expired mark on it. > I cannot finish this note without noticing how all this is not in the > domain of the RFC editor — we have kept the domain of authoring and > progressing documents out of this domain and are continuously baffled > by the process discontinuities that the cliff between authoring and > publishing creates. We need to think about the entire process of RFC > creation in a unified way to reduce the obstacles. Agreed. -- Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca> . o O ( IPv6 IøT consulting ) Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide
- [Tools-discuss] disappearing IDs on www.ietf.org Michael Richardson
- Re: [Tools-discuss] disappearing IDs on www.ietf.… Henrik Levkowetz
- Re: [Tools-discuss] disappearing IDs on www.ietf.… Michael Richardson
- Re: [Tools-discuss] disappearing IDs on www.ietf.… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [Tools-discuss] disappearing IDs on www.ietf.… Robert Sparks
- Re: [Tools-discuss] disappearing IDs on www.ietf.… Michael Richardson
- Re: [Tools-discuss] disappearing IDs on www.ietf.… Robert Sparks
- Re: [Tools-discuss] disappearing IDs on www.ietf.… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Tools-discuss] disappearing IDs on www.ietf.… Russ Housley
- Re: [Tools-discuss] disappearing IDs on www.ietf.… Carsten Bormann
- [Tools-discuss] Expired draft on the w.g. status … Bob Hinden
- Re: [Tools-discuss] disappearing IDs on www.ietf.… Julian Reschke
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Expired draft on the w.g. sta… Russ Housley
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Expired draft on the w.g. sta… Bob Hinden
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Expired draft on the w.g. sta… Robert Sparks
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Expired draft on the w.g. sta… Robert Sparks
- Re: [Tools-discuss] disappearing IDs on www.ietf.… Michael Richardson
- Re: [Tools-discuss] disappearing IDs on www.ietf.… Michael Richardson
- Re: [Tools-discuss] disappearing IDs on www.ietf.… Robert Sparks
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Expired draft on the w.g. sta… Bob Hinden
- Re: [Tools-discuss] disappearing IDs on www.ietf.… Bob Hinden
- Re: [Tools-discuss] disappearing IDs on www.ietf.… Robert Sparks
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Expired draft on the w.g. sta… Russ Housley
- Re: [Tools-discuss] disappearing IDs on www.ietf.… Michael Richardson
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Expired draft on the w.g. sta… Michael Richardson
- Re: [Tools-discuss] disappearing IDs on www.ietf.… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Expired draft on the w.g. sta… Brian E Carpenter
- [Tools-discuss] Expiry Doctrine (Re: Expired draf… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Expiry Doctrine (Re: Expired … Robert Sparks
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Expiry Doctrine (Re: Expired … Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Expiry Doctrine (Re: Expired … Carsten Bormann
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Expiry Doctrine (Re: Expired … Michael Richardson
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Expiry Doctrine (Re: Expired … Michael Richardson
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Expiry Doctrine (Re: Expired … Julian Reschke
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Expiry Doctrine (Re: Expired … Robert Sparks
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Expiry Doctrine (Re: Expired … Carsten Bormann
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Expiry Doctrine (Re: Expired … Robert Sparks
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Expiry Doctrine (Re: Expired … Carsten Bormann
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Expiry Doctrine (Re: Expired … Robert Sparks
- Re: [Tools-discuss] disappearing IDs on www.ietf.… Nico Williams
- Re: [Tools-discuss] disappearing IDs on www.ietf.… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [Tools-discuss] disappearing IDs on www.ietf.… Nico Williams
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Expiry Doctrine (Re: Expired … Michael Richardson
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Expiry Doctrine (Re: Expired … Julian Reschke
- Re: [Tools-discuss] disappearing IDs on www.ietf.… Michael Richardson
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Expiry Doctrine (Re: Expired … S Moonesamy
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Expiry Doctrine (Re: Expired … Julian Reschke
- [Tools-discuss] it is worse than I thought: (was … Michael Richardson
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Expiry Doctrine (Re: Expired … worley
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Expiry Doctrine (Re: Expired … Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Expiry Doctrine (Re: Expired … Joe Touch
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Expiry Doctrine (Re: Expired … Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Expiry Doctrine (Re: Expired … Joseph Touch
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Expiry Doctrine (Re: Expired … Carsten Bormann
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Expiry Doctrine (Re: Expired … Joe Touch
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Expiry Doctrine (Re: Expired … Carsten Bormann
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Expiry Doctrine (Re: Expired … Joseph Touch
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Expiry Doctrine (Re: Expired … Paul Hoffman