Re: [Tools-discuss] .txt? [I-D Action: draft-xxx.txt]

Toerless Eckert <tte@cs.fau.de> Mon, 28 June 2021 23:47 UTC

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Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2021 01:47:07 +0200
From: Toerless Eckert <tte@cs.fau.de>
To: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
Cc: John R Levine <johnl@taugh.com>, tools-discuss@ietf.org
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Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] .txt? [I-D Action: draft-xxx.txt]
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On Tue, Jun 29, 2021 at 09:48:36AM +1200, Brian E Carpenter wrote:
> > I still don't know what else i as an author
> > would benefit from in v3.
> 
> 1. A very nice looking HTML result instead of a geeky thing.
> 2. UTF-8
> 3. SVG. Hard work to use, but well worth it.

Thanks for explaining. 

> 4. Using tools that are currently maintained.

Quite a big churn for third party tooling for these benefits.

> I've had no trouble at all editing XML in v3.

Some tags got more convoluted. And figuring out how to put RFC references into v3 was also more convoluted han in v2.

> The only real
> annoyance is that the converter can't do anything sensible with
> <vspace blankLines="1"/> which I used to use a lot. Everything
> else is trivial.

Yes. There should be more rendering hints permitted/maintained. 

> (The converter insists on inserting lots of format="default"
> and toc="default" which are just noise and can be deleted.)

That too.

Well, i am just trying to write my first draft in kramdown, i'll have more opinions later.
> 
> Regards
>    Brian
> 
> On 29-Jun-21 07:38, Toerless Eckert wrote:
> > I only converted the last rfc i was editor for during the final revisions to go to rfc,
> > and i only did this so i could use the only one new feature of v3 that i felt i wanted
> > to use, name the Contributors tag. I still don't know what else i as an author
> > would benefit from in v3.
> > 
> > I did find the conversion sufficient for that last mile to RFC editor, but not persuasive to
> > suggest it to authors if/when they want to continue doing mayor edits to the document. This
> > is primarily beceause the v3 ended up with a tag-verbose XMLv3 than the v2 i had
> > edited for years. This specifically included inlining the rfc/draft references as opposed 
> > to keeping the references, but also several other tags that where written out more verbosely
> > and with a lot of default parameters (unnecessarily).  Hope i remember this all correctly.
> > 
> > This v2->v3 conversion process feels a bit like attempting to have a good idea but then
> > outsource the conversion cost.  Reminds me of linux. Great new SDK/Library, but now all
> > the third-party apps developed against an older version have to be rewritten. In comparison,
> > in Windows i can have 10 versions of the same core SDK co-installed and all the old but
> > still useful programs will still run. But no linux distributions do not support such slotting
> > or do not compile all old library versions, and library developers don't care about supporting
> > multi-slotting... *sigh*
> > 
> > Chers
> >     Toerless
> > 
> > On Sat, Jun 26, 2021 at 10:40:40PM -0400, John R Levine wrote:
> >>>> Among the many things on the to-do list is to redo the I-D submission page
> >>>> to make it clearer that you only need to submit one version of a draft,
> >>>> and that we'd appreciate the XML version if you have one.
> >>>
> >>> Excellent. Is there any reason not to run the v2 to v3 converter automatically?
> >>
> >> We really want people to stop using v2.  It's obsolete and missing some
> >> semantic features of v3.
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Taughannock Networks, Trumansburg NY
> >> Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly
> >>
> >> ___________________________________________________________
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tte@cs.fau.de