Re: [Tools-discuss] Expiry Doctrine (Re: Expired draft on the w.g. status pages [was Re: disappearing IDs on www.ietf.org])

Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca> Sun, 13 September 2020 20:47 UTC

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From: Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>
To: Robert Sparks <rjsparks@nostrum.com>, Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org>, tools-discuss@ietf.org
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Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2020 16:47:38 -0400
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Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Expiry Doctrine (Re: Expired draft on the w.g. status pages [was Re: disappearing IDs on www.ietf.org])
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Robert Sparks <rjsparks@nostrum.com> wrote:
    > On 9/13/20 11:46 AM, Carsten Bormann wrote:
    >> On 2020-09-13, at 18:33, Robert Sparks <rjsparks@nostrum.com> wrote:
    >>> For clarity - why isn't that the datatracker page for the draft?
    >> Well, contrast
    >>
    >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-cbor-7049bis/
    >>
    >> with
    >>
    >> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-cbor-7049bis

    > How about https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-cbor-7049bis-14?

    > (Which is what Henrik was evolving from the tools htmlization, but the header
    > information could also appear over a v3 rendering).

Yes, so this is the html-itization via DT.
vs HTML rendering of the ID.
I like that it has all the status info, but I find it much less readable than
other formats, because it has such wide horizontal empty gutters.

It has some header across the top, but if you try to use them you wind up
elsewhere, and then you can't via the headers, get back.

    >> Nobody who is confronted for the first time with the bugzillaish
    >> datatracker page will know what to click.  This is not a useful page to
    >> have in the references section of a paper, or to reference from a blog
    >> article.

While I understand Carsten's bugzilla reference, many others might not.

Robert, I think that what we are saying is that the DT document page has
reached a point where it has been too sophisticated for newcomers, and
non-IETFers.   We, IETFers, would like to point people to the new beautifully
rendered HTML copies, but we need:
  1) stable URL, despite revision of documents, or:
  2) unstable URL, with status and forward pointers

In both cases, we need a pointer to the DT page.

{While HTML4 FRAMEs are never a good answer, this sure feels like it might be
a reasonable question}

--
Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>   . o O ( IPv6 IøT consulting )
           Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide