Re: [Tools-discuss] datatracker, I-Ds, and email addresses

Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> Tue, 30 May 2023 21:42 UTC

Return-Path: <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41A81C151B02; Tue, 30 May 2023 14:42:20 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -7.097
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_DBL_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, URIBL_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eRrIKJi1jUli; Tue, 30 May 2023 14:42:15 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-pj1-x102f.google.com (mail-pj1-x102f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::102f]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EBD14C151B00; Tue, 30 May 2023 14:42:15 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-pj1-x102f.google.com with SMTP id 98e67ed59e1d1-2563aaceda9so2831229a91.1; Tue, 30 May 2023 14:42:15 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20221208; t=1685482935; x=1688074935; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:from:references:cc:to :content-language:subject:user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=DqI65sI//Vu5sI6czZXkNl0mdEChb3IMIDLLuETfDDE=; b=QXklv3UvXxDzVCMX34BjKoGIxphzuza0RNli/whGfhgxTBZ9pkTMPTSjJTVABqRNXP 1wH8QczdpZZ0qKd+RXgJab+diiAXZgDCRDOdPMgmJ0aRz2ypeRO6YvnezCqoATYMyH1E YGaHQHdJ5tw2pKxTs6GUpe4dphLyhJTWwE2+xfIPS0tQ44xEslaNabniPppwKEi17f6n EOEyLKhWXXY+9wgA0WGNDRXh0wvLkJUE5tfXwCsaJClQN5Tx2moZ84+9GEvXredeZjbx Uj1m4jnDQCAJrR9xTLv6WXJgGh9q6rofldLvHQsYYjmGTgKnkrKBIb+5xdAGz9KJwDWr PUOw==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20221208; t=1685482935; x=1688074935; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:from:references:cc:to :content-language:subject:user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=DqI65sI//Vu5sI6czZXkNl0mdEChb3IMIDLLuETfDDE=; b=KX5qQUfYfciTNuiTrsVnHQQNN/2t5uYDDnKqE046IQjhwPCrb+p5ypj35YNnHZYckA DfuegJ4G03+n3UwWE4GO8XX4blJ5HlM0KPsRlGxZrOG6McJgxnH6o+qlKQCfG/zvZBAe UztltME+rbcnHWGuoKTkeFsHCA8Be4G7ZnXl85LnadTzNTmiXggc0MkiaCjfw6m26tXN 3RPFnhfZXnDSA4aZrC+NVsEbHdl5LWpkl9cPBIcgTCgf3ojnlFYis6bkrb2UsJgaZoF2 hPHU94o+smDLY81BSLc7JOXx5CrcufM9LHUaFs25DYkiBs7PqETKNAPZyqitodNDu29Q pj1Q==
X-Gm-Message-State: AC+VfDzSpOqKNZikEeAjESyIp3he/5v4n6P4tJ9BhxHCBZ3AyvcOnedy tYQgSSqzu4UKt5DE9MJeNKoUNliu+AHMhQ==
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACHHUZ4RhH0WsDN4pk0iK7NrabNoiSII0EyM/AKciONVOvpKgDD6wxMNW25deLZcOChG6RwM3axjjg==
X-Received: by 2002:a17:90b:17ca:b0:253:572f:79b2 with SMTP id me10-20020a17090b17ca00b00253572f79b2mr3779703pjb.36.1685482935182; Tue, 30 May 2023 14:42:15 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from ?IPV6:2406:e003:1184:f001:9991:d1ad:8c20:42bd? ([2406:e003:1184:f001:9991:d1ad:8c20:42bd]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 12-20020a17090a194c00b00256504e0937sm2649845pjh.34.2023.05.30.14.42.13 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 30 May 2023 14:42:14 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <a6ba4484-e3b6-613c-69b0-e570cb339b4b@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 31 May 2023 09:42:10 +1200
MIME-Version: 1.0
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.10.0
Content-Language: en-US
To: Jay Daley <exec-director@ietf.org>, John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com>
Cc: Tools Team Discussion <tools-discuss@ietf.org>
References: <CF14A35ABED1122EC614AF81@PSB> <0298e627-b433-4ecb-0c29-cd395079de6e@gmail.com> <D94D78B548161F0ECFD69111@PSB> <17FA35AD-F786-48B0-8EC5-46A8EFAD90E0@ietf.org>
From: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <17FA35AD-F786-48B0-8EC5-46A8EFAD90E0@ietf.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"; format="flowed"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tools-discuss/RBzQZPg_ZcLf6KoCKD3yDTNQ-4A>
Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] datatracker, I-Ds, and email addresses
X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.39
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion <tools-discuss.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/tools-discuss>, <mailto:tools-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/tools-discuss/>
List-Post: <mailto:tools-discuss@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:tools-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss>, <mailto:tools-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 30 May 2023 21:42:20 -0000

On 30-May-23 21:35, Jay Daley wrote:
> John
> 
> Are you suggesting that when an I-D is submitted, the email addresses of the authors are automagically added to their Datatracker profiles, even if they themselves omitted to do that?

Looking at my own profile, my primary address is listed as

"brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com 	author: draft-ietf-6man-rfc6874bis"

which strongly suggests that the DT actively tracks submissions, since that
is the draft that's been (re)submitted most recently.

But the *primary* address is presumably user-choice?

    Brian

> 
> Jay
> 
>> On 28 May 2023, at 01:36, John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com> wrote:
>>
>> Brian,
>>
>> Yes, typo.  Sorry.
>>
>> And, yes, I can imagine such a heuristic.  At the same time, if
>> that most recent RFCs is decades old and the (new) I-D is fully
>> posted, it seems to be that a competent heuristic would either
>> go with the information in the I-D or point the inconsistency
>> out and ask for human assistance.   (FWIW, I am not able to
>> figure out what it would mean to identify an I-D as less than
>> fully posted when the announcement had bee sent to
>> IETF-announce, the datatracker page was up, and the document was
>> online in the places that both specified, all of which are the
>> case here.)
>>
>> best,
>>   john
>>
>>
>> --On Sunday, May 28, 2023 11:53 +1200 Brian E Carpenter
>> <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> To avoid confusion, I think you mean RFC 2693.
>>>
>>> I'd guess that we are dealing with a heuristic for the case
>>> where
>>> the DT profile is incomplete. "Use the most recent RFC" might
>>> appear safer than "use the most recent I-D" in some lights.
>>> Or maybe "use the most recent I-D" won't work before the I-D
>>> has been fully posted.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>    Brian
>>>
>>> On 28-May-23 11:24, John C Klensin wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> Until very recently, I assumed that the email addresses shown
>>>> in the Datatracker, particularly those shown on the home
>>>> pages for various I-Ds, would be the most up-to-date ones we
>>>> had except, possibly, for old I-Ds where they might reflect
>>>> the addresses shown as Author Address information in those
>>>> I-Ds.
>>>>
>>>> That does not appear to be the case.   If one examines
>>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-rivest-sexp/
>>>> an address is shown for the first author, Ronald L. Rivest, of
>>>> rivest@theory.lcs.mit.edu.  His datatracker page does not show
>>>> any email addresses at all.  RFC 1186 (October 1990) shows
>>>> that address under Author's Addresses as does RFC 2593
>>>> (September 1999).  But that address has been dead, or at least
>>>> not-preferred, since at least July 2003 when LCS was merged
>>>> into CSAIL and MIT, IIR, was already strongly preferring
>>>> user@mit.edu styles of email addresses over
>>>> user@department-or-lab.mit.edu ones before I left about a
>>>> decade earlier.
>>>>
>>>> In any event, the Authors' Addresses section of
>>>> draft-rivest-sexp-00 shows the correct current email address,
>>>> rivest@mit.edu.  Why is the datatracker picking up, and
>>>> showing on that I-D page, a two decade-old address rather
>>>> than the one in an I-D posted a couple of days ago?  And,
>>>> especially assuming that there might be other instances of
>>>> similar relationships, can this be fixed and fixed more
>>>> generally than patching that particular page (although that
>>>> would be good too)?
>>>>
>>>>       thanks
>>>>        john
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ___________________________________________________________
>>>> Tools-discuss mailing list - Tools-discuss@ietf.org -
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss
>>
>>
>> ___________________________________________________________
>> Tools-discuss mailing list - Tools-discuss@ietf.org - https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss
> 
> -- 
> Jay Daley
> IETF Executive Director
> exec-director@ietf.org
>