Re: [Tools-discuss] [Gendispatch] Updating the IETF Discussion List Charter (was: Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-eggert-bcp45bis-02.txt)

John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> Tue, 13 July 2021 20:14 UTC

Return-Path: <johnl@iecc.com>
X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C66853A180F for <tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 13 Jul 2021 13:14:37 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.799
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.799 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=iecc.com header.b=WTMqaa4o; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=taugh.com header.b=hCSKMbav
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id c8jZvgRoX2SN for <tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 13 Jul 2021 13:14:31 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from gal.iecc.com (gal.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:43:6f73:7461]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6C2F23A180B for <tools-discuss@ietf.org>; Tue, 13 Jul 2021 13:14:31 -0700 (PDT)
Received: (qmail 54883 invoked from network); 13 Jul 2021 20:14:30 -0000
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:cleverness; s=d661.60edf426.k2107; bh=rQeabR0Ap+shJTgrEtPgJVVRVAyNtvTXFjjCenP5258=; b=WTMqaa4oXV0g0RylQ/LaeOTpAJO0Dnhzdki/xaQcRHLwpZmB6+rK4VgJ1CCHE7L6DyXLMa1mhnRfiInVuV2wgsZWBnjfCy3QcPfTaRUvMDGhvV/dhAG4dsd7PfgoyJXZDRtoCDkraxd1a5rU1Z/9HrCPKApSWjLydcOXp+o1wEAzxa7hoCawfZd0zJJzl/6yq9BG++DtoT54LdAlcD4aG1UctWMGVzBxw4KTapLyuG59lpCfu2T5uw3Ka8FDEpNsp0MdTySSm96g6ymPUIEI/AIrR2JbQphHOx3S0R10f/+qZx8hnhKXJMJYK05fLymwbkryZQpgM3402hHxcOCjkg==
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=taugh.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:cleverness; s=d661.60edf426.k2107; bh=rQeabR0Ap+shJTgrEtPgJVVRVAyNtvTXFjjCenP5258=; b=hCSKMbavGjxiV8hXhrqKOyQGe7l6DSEFyuGhgCjvgfSfdv5jo8+dsETNI1m0B6qU5FptoctGkIDvT5pPppVwUqxnNPil+ysZTCXV3h8jcBiCtdfiaExwRYvSlMZXELoB5cmQcqUWqVyLRKZszID+Y7G00BI1sdEEatGO86GkO1ivBacmoLl2BaHPXNOG0Wsz5p20xB9YTplrvfG2XwM/upo8fcuUYX/OGGKmWZBwdZ24nlt+uH/CLYm4mw+Nb6ujAd2hXFajzrVsIZh+Up/WwSimzNXAyNV8QawE4jxn+4rZDIMEybzZDXyprdEvPDwwU/mzcWs4q22YlfHwkOlHDw==
Received: from ary.qy ([IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126::78:696d:6170]) by imap.iecc.com ([IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126::78:696d:6170]) with ESMTPS (TLS1.2 ECDHE-RSA AES-256-GCM AEAD) via TCP6; 13 Jul 2021 20:14:30 -0000
Received: by ary.qy (Postfix, from userid 501) id 5881D2150B1F; Tue, 13 Jul 2021 16:14:29 -0400 (EDT)
Date: 13 Jul 2021 16:14:29 -0400
Message-Id: <20210713201429.5881D2150B1F@ary.qy>
From: "John Levine" <johnl@taugh.com>
To: gendispatch@ietf.org, tools-discuss@ietf.org
In-Reply-To: <AB7DAFB7-5514-4046-8EA3-8D10431370E1@eggert.org>
Organization: Taughannock Networks
X-Headerized: yes
Cleverness: minimal
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tools-discuss/WrlD7HWEeCP0ZBuhE6H-F0RrTFc>
Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] [Gendispatch] Updating the IETF Discussion List Charter (was: Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-eggert-bcp45bis-02.txt)
X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion <tools-discuss.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/tools-discuss>, <mailto:tools-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/tools-discuss/>
List-Post: <mailto:tools-discuss@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:tools-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss>, <mailto:tools-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2021 20:14:38 -0000

It appears that Lars Eggert  <lars@eggert.org> said:
>On 2021-7-13, at 1:50, Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com> wrote:
>> With that said, there's no reason to be locked into the "one-size-fits-all" mailing list paradigm for this kind of automatic notification. Unlike ietf@, the number of people
>who send mail to ietf-announce is very small, so we don't really need to have it as a simple mailing list. Instead, what I would suggest is that we modify the automatic
>notification system to allow people to customize which notifications they want to receive (they can still allo appear to go to the same list, which could even be called
>ietf-announce if we want). That way, people can easily filter on the server side and get just the subset they care about. [0]
>> 
>> -Ekr
>> 
>> [0] We can of course still build an archive that has every announcement.
>
>I like this idea. Would this need to result in new custom datatracker code, or is there a third-party service that could be leveraged?
>
>(This part of the discussion should also probably move to tools-discus.)

You really, REALLY, do not want to try to reinvent a bulk mail system.

GNU Mailman has a little-used "topics" feature that I think can do the trick here.  The list manager configures
a set of topic regexps for the list, and subscribers can say which topics they want.  In each message the topic(s)
appear in the Subject or Keywords line and it sends the message to the people subscribed to the topics.  If you don't
pick any topics, by default you get all of them.

See https://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/node29.html

The interface within mailman to set the topics is pretty grody, but I presume it just puts stuff in the underlying
database so we could invent our own interface to it without extreme pain.

R's,
John

PS: Some of us don't subscribe to any IETF lists but instead retrieve the messages from the IMAP server, but I think we
can fend for ourselves.