Re: [Tools-discuss] Trial chat services: matrix and zulip
Adam Roach <adam@nostrum.com> Thu, 01 October 2020 19:21 UTC
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From: Adam Roach <adam@nostrum.com>
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Date: Thu, 01 Oct 2020 14:21:47 -0500
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Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Trial chat services: matrix and zulip
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Sorry for the noise, folks. I *meant* to send this directly to Robert. :) /a On 10/1/2020 2:20 PM, Adam Roach wrote: > Off-list reply. > > I'm happy to hook you up with the person who did this exact evaluation > for Mozilla when they decided to retire IRC (for many of the same > reasons that the IETF needs to move off of Jabber). The punchline is > that they finally settled on Matrix, but there was a lot of really > detailed work that he did which could probably inform what y'all are > doing. > > /a > > On 10/1/2020 9:25 AM, Robert Sparks wrote: >> We are deploying trials of the matrix and zulip chat services to gain >> operational experience and get community feedback about how well these >> services meet the need for IETF related chat. >> >> We have clear evidence from the IETF 107 post-meeting survey >> (https://www.ietf.org/media/documents/ietf-107-survey-results.pdf) >> that many >> IETF participants find jabber a significant problem. This is partly >> due to >> difficulties in finding a free jabber service and partly due to >> client issues. >> There are two paths to try to resolve these problems, one is to >> improve the >> IETF jabber service and the other is to switch to an alternative >> groupchat >> solution. The community has already taken a step on the latter path >> with the >> introduction of an IETF Slack space, and we want to ensure that this >> path is >> properly explored by widening the range of options to well established >> free/open source tools. >> >> The installs currently have almost no local configuration or >> customization. >> Over the next few weeks, we will be exploring reconfiguring them to use >> datatracker credentials for sign-in, and explore bridging between these >> systems, Slack, and Jabber. One consequence of these explorations is >> that there >> will likely be times, outside of meetings, when accounts will be >> disrupted or >> even removed and will have to be recreated. Initially, we suggest you >> use an >> email address for the username on each service. >> >> We considered running these trials using instances run by the Zulip >> or Matrix >> communities. We went with instances operated by the secretariat to >> learn what >> would be needed if the community felt self-hosting chat was important >> in the >> long-term. >> >> The services can be found at matrix-trial1.ietf.org and >> zulip-trial1.ietf.org. >> >> Any matrix client can be used with the trial matrix server. There is >> also >> a web client available at at matrix-trial1.ietf.org. >> >> Similarly any zulip client can be used with the trial zulip server, >> which >> has a built in web interface. >> >> We would like feedback on how well each client meets chat needs during >> meetings, both the full online IETF 109 meeting, iterims, adhocs, and >> hallway >> conversations. >> >> Around December, we will assess our experiences and the feedback >> received to >> inform what chat services we provide in the future and how we will >> operate >> them. In January, these trial instances will be taken down. We do not >> intend to >> preserve or migrate any account configuration or chat history from >> the trial >> instances as we move forward. >> >> This does add to the potentially confusing large number of places >> conversation >> might take place. We hope to address that with some level of >> bridging, at least >> with Jabber, but have been cautioned by the respective development >> communities >> that bridging between Zulip and Matrix is unsatisfying since the >> conversation >> models in the two applications are so different. >> >> The chat services are intended to be explorational and informal. >> However, >> please treat them as contexts where contribution rules apply (See >> https://www.ietf.org/about/note-well/). >> >> We are not, at this time, planning to host jabber accounts. We may >> revisit that >> as an option as we continue to gather more feedback. >> >> Please send feedback on the services to tools-discuss@ietf.org >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> IETF-Announce mailing list >> IETF-Announce@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce > > > ___________________________________________________________ > Tools-discuss mailing list > Tools-discuss@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss > > Please report datatracker.ietf.org and mailarchive.ietf.org > bugs at http://tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb > or send email to datatracker-project@ietf.org > > Please report tools.ietf.org bugs at > http://tools.ietf.org/tools/issues > or send email to webmaster@tools.ietf.org
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Trial chat services: matrix a… Ted Lemon
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Trial chat services: matrix a… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Trial chat services: matrix a… Adam Roach
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Trial chat services: matrix a… Adam Roach
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Trial chat services: matrix a… Matthew Hodgson
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Trial chat services: matrix a… Matthew Hodgson
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Trial chat services: matrix a… Lars Eggert
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Trial chat services: matrix a… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Trial chat services: matrix a… Matthew Hodgson
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Trial chat services: matrix a… Johanna S
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Trial chat services: matrix a… Glen
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Trial chat services: matrix a… Glen
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Trial chat services: matrix a… Kim Alvefur
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Trial chat services: matrix a… Matthew Hodgson
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Trial chat services: matrix a… Matthew Hodgson
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Trial chat services: matrix a… Lars Eggert
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Trial chat services: matrix a… Lars Eggert
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Trial chat services: matrix a… Dave Cridland
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Trial chat services: matrix a… Michael Richardson
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Trial chat services: matrix a… Glen
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Trial chat services: matrix a… Jay Daley
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Trial chat services: matrix a… Tom Pusateri
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Trial chat services: matrix a… Dave Cridland
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Trial chat services: matrix a… Jay Daley
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Trial chat services: matrix a… Dave Cridland
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Trial chat services: matrix a… Dave Cridland
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Trial chat services: matrix a… Matthew Wild
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Trial chat services: matrix a… Michael Richardson
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Trial chat services: matrix a… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Trial chat services: matrix a… Michael Richardson
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Trial chat services: matrix a… Salz, Rich
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Trial chat services: matrix a… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Trial chat services: matrix a… Ted Lemon
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Trial chat services: matrix a… Salz, Rich
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Trial chat services: matrix a… Matthew Wild
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Trial chat services: matrix a… Ted Lemon
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Trial chat services: matrix a… Matthew Wild
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Trial chat services: matrix a… Ted Lemon