Re: [Tools-discuss] [111attendees] Positive observations and proposals for improvements to Meetecho (was: Re: Re: So, what are jabber scribes actually doing, these days?)

[Spencer Dawkins at IETF <[e-mail]>]

Hi, Mike,

On Mon, Aug 2, 2021 at 12:22 PM Mike Bishop <[e-mail]> wrote:

> Let me add to the suggestion that names of speakers appear in the video
> view -- the recorded sessions which are posted to YouTube don't have names
> associated with the video, or with audio-only speakers.  Because everyone
> is looking at the MeetEcho UI, last names aren't typically being used,
> which means I have to guess who is making particular comments when watching
> the recordings.
>
> I'd like to suggest that the idea of having icons of audio-only
> participants be expanded to the recordings, and that participants with
> video have names attached to the video in the recording.
>

Yeah, it would be good to look seriously at the YouTube videos and figure
out what else we're missing from the video feed. I was thinking about
"comments made in Jabber", but your observations are also things worth
fixing, and (especially if we make a habit of sticking jabber logs into
minutes or otherwise making links to the jabber logs YouTube-visible) more
useful for more people.

Best,

Spencer


> Thanks!
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: 111attendees <[e-mail]> On Behalf Of Meetecho
> IETF support
> Sent: Friday, July 30, 2021 3:38 PM
> To: [e-mail]
> Cc: [e-mail]
> Subject: Re: [111attendees] Positive observations and proposals for
> improvements to Meetecho (was: Re: Re: So, what are jabber scribes actually
> doing, these days?)
>
> All,
>
> chiming in just to say that we at Meetecho appreciate and value your
> feedback. We'll definitely take it into account when developing the future
> releases of the platform. We'll provide comments on the points raised as
> soon as we get the chance to parse them, i.e., when the meeting is over.
>
> Also, I'm cc'ing [e-mail] and setting the reply-to header
> to that list as well, as that's the right place to discuss enhancements and
> provide feedback that would be easier for us to collect.
>
> Best,
> Alessandro
>
> Il 30/07/21 19:37, Spencer Dawkins at IETF ha scritto:
> > I should have changed the Subject a LONG time ago! But this thread has
> > morphed into helpful observations and suggestions, so, if I might add
> > a couple of things ...
> >
> > I agree that Meetecho has been improving (and just for fun, the
> > Meetecho guys were participants in the MEDIACTL session I was
> > co-chairing in Hiroshima at IETF 76 in November 2009, and they roped
> > in a team member from Italy during the discussion using whatever the
> > toolset was back then, so many of you have no idea how MUCH they've
> improved 😀).
> >
> > I see that we've already mentioned detaching the chat window, and
> > usually I remember that we can detach the chat by Tuesday of each IETF
> > meeting week at the latest, which is almost certainly a result of not
> > having THAT much experience with Meetecho during the four months
> > between meetings. Now that we can use Meetecho for interim meetings,
> > that will help me remember more clearly, so good there, too.
> >
> > The one thing I've noticed this week is how difficult it is to figure
> > out who is speaking if they aren't sending video, and there's a long
> > list of people in the queue. The suggestion to move the speakers above
> > the queue would improve that, and so would simply displaying the
> > active speaker names in the screen space where their video would have
> > gone, if the person had been sending video.One reason that matters, is
> > that it's helpful for everyone to get the speaker's name right in the
> minutes.
> > That's not just for new attendees, I'm starting to forget what people
> > sound like, unless I'm talking to them regularly, or they have a very
> > distinctive speech pattern, so I've definitely depending on seeing
> > names when I'm taking minutes. .
> >
> > The one thing I was thinking about, as I read through this thread, was
> > that we are kinda *not *talking about what the IETF thinks the target
> > audience for our conferencing tool is.
> >
> >   * For probably the last couple of IETFs, I have a GREAT setup for
> >     remote participation (my laptop screen, plus two 25-inch monitors).
> >     But I do have tiled windows on all three screens.
> >   * If we think people who can't throw a few hundred dollars at monitor
> >     screens are part of our target audience, that's worth noting.
> >   * If we think we're going to have hybrid meetings, in at least some
> >     scenarios, it's going to be good to use Meetecho in the conference
> >     rooms (especially if we need to be distancing, so more spread out,
> >     front to back in the conference rooms).
> >   * Even if we aren't doing hybrid meetings, I've participated in some
> >     working group meetings from my hotel room, but I wasn't tryng to
> >     co-chair a meeting, or even to present at a meeting.
> >   * When Michael Richardson and I talked to the Cellar working group
> >     participants about switching to Meetecho for our (monthy) interims,
> >     the first question we got was, "is there an iOS/Adroid client?" I
> >     haven't checked Meetecho on my phone in years, but I'd bet offhand
> >     that (1) it would work, but (2) it might not be as easy to use as
> >     some other conferencing systems, on those devices. Do people have
> >     experience with that?
> >
> > I'll let you folks continue to share these positive observations and
> > proposals. Make Good Choices, of course.
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > Spencer
> >
> > On Thu, Jul 29, 2021 at 6:15 PM Jay Daley <[e-mail]
> > <mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:
> >
> >     Thanks Bron.  Personally I think that’s a great usability adjustment
> >     and will forward to the Meetecho team for them to consider.
> >
> >     Jay
> >
> >      > On 30/07/2021, at 10:58 AM, Bron Gondwana <[e-mail]
> >     <mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:
> >      >
> >      > On Fri, Jul 30, 2021, at 05:21, Jay Daley wrote:
> >      >> No we have absolutely not pushed Meetecho into being "just a
> >     contractor", they are a valued partner and we work very well
> >     together.  If you have any doubts about that then ask them directly.
> >      >>
> >      >> It is disappointing that you have escalated a personal concern
> >     that you have with our services into such a strong criticism when
> >     that is entirely unsupported by any evidence.
> >      >
> >      > Jay, I agree with your sentiment here - this attitude to Meetecho
> >     is counterproductive.  They've done great work for the last couple
> >     of IETFs and the experience is improving each time.  I have
> >     particularly appreciated the embedded slide management, and I'm sure
> >     that will be even better next time too.
> >      >
> >      > Regarding the specific interface issues that remain, I do think
> >     there's a question of "where do we propose improvements in a way
> >     that will be noticed"?  I've seen the suggestion made very many
> >     times that the "speaker" area (where the video shows) should have
> >     additional lines for each person sending anything, rather than that
> >     information being at the top of the participant list.  This is much
> >     more like the experience with other chat systems, for example Zoom
> >     shows either a photo or a blank item for somebody who isn't
> >     currently sending video, but they're otherwise treated "the same" as
> >     a person sending video in terms of real-estate and where to look for
> >     their presence by default.
> >      >
> >      > Right now with meetecho, my eyes are normally at the video are
> >     when people are speaking, but if a non-video person is speaking I
> >     need to look across to the other side of the screen to see the audio
> >     indication.
> >      >
> >      > And as was also suggested in this thread, you can't scroll the
> >     participant list to find someone to chat to, because they jump to
> >     the top when they are sending, then back to alphabetical position.
> >     This is also a usability pain.  Separating "the list of
> >     participants" (which wouldn't move about) and "the list of people
> >     sending something" with the video and audio indications being
> >     together in one place would be a significant improvement.  And as an
> >     additional benefit, when you're looking at the chat window, you
> >     would still be able to see all the details of who is sending
> >     (including yourself - if you're sending then the indicator of your
> >     own audio should be the same as the indicator of everyone else's
> >     audio, rather than being in yet a third location up under your own
> >     name).
> >      >
> >      > <image.png>
> >      > So those two names would appear in the right hand side, and also
> >     still have their name in the participant list, and the video feeds
> >     would each have a "here's what's being sent".  Chairs would always
> >     have a presence on the right, with whatever they were currently
> >     sending - and the "participants" tab would only have the list of
> >     participants, and not be a place you needed to go to see activity,
> >     so you could mostly keep the chat tab open.
> >      >
> >      > Bron.
> >      >
> >      >
> >      > --
> >      >   Bron Gondwana, CEO, Fastmail Pty Ltd
> >      > [e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>
> >      >
> >      >
> >      > --
> >      > 111attendees mailing list
> >      > [e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>
> >      > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/111attendees
> >     <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/111attendees>
> >
> >     --
> >     Jay Daley
> >     IETF Executive Director
> >     [e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>
> >
> >     --
> >     111attendees mailing list
> >     [e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>
> >     https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/111attendees
> >     <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/111attendees>
> >
> >
>
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