Re: [Tools-discuss] polls "show of hands": can we include a "i don't understand" or "not enough information" option

Spencer Dawkins at IETF <spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com> Wed, 18 November 2020 19:27 UTC

Return-Path: <spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9ECA93A0A9C for <tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 18 Nov 2020 11:27:00 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.097
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id f9CcTC7WRtXl for <tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 18 Nov 2020 11:26:59 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-yb1-xb2e.google.com (mail-yb1-xb2e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::b2e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 013303A0A90 for <tools-discuss@ietf.org>; Wed, 18 Nov 2020 11:26:58 -0800 (PST)
Received: by mail-yb1-xb2e.google.com with SMTP id x17so2772809ybr.8 for <tools-discuss@ietf.org>; Wed, 18 Nov 2020 11:26:58 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=nH5gMJ1reL4RCqGBiBCaODl7GOKzYTnbwyTCjoYGuX0=; b=jR6nH+lp7/s4Tm0JO/c0wZu7jFTWZ5rqB/vOMeUTFup5Us8PwssiV/oQzhrUhKpUGc GoZ057NBOD90yq/5ZwV0JTK/kngxfJg6OgSIjuF8xPeo5fh/FChXtxsXy9Wm28GTHV7D 8VuzaBhYA4dS/2lSbGsY42vN1oLm0gBiXi+3fjhTwfvzPhg2YgFcQbrCAVZtksSLmfMM Zt3FCKxAVjES0aiBthFBJJHWXkA3n4TX1YB5MnuEEtGSB5WwyGdB688NocTSDNliL5Cr DA7n391kS/8eAMNS+OTNj5EE3Sk0rWZLlaXx+EGa/cVzG/S+g+1JB8Mi3YxYtOUZBG+x fWZw==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=nH5gMJ1reL4RCqGBiBCaODl7GOKzYTnbwyTCjoYGuX0=; b=fzHQqS85OoI1r4G3aOAYEXoJW5zioiRk3hasQ+GfsFqpovoYqJadAKNF4LBbAOuv7/ yyN1zUSeVRTi7JZZLXMVxuff7G2GffxCrDTG4lbx277x4NwrAnQnLW4eAfvcpd9fbhEM IOqQkdIiBbIGBz5CjoBorV4tWACXTSKFKl9Tw5P4VYUm2g1K8DL7slQoTeLIJddwTcZl KDzhmf9j212My8iC5Bi0Brn6XK8NoIgPK0bLjlguwe/gPQEH40CuRhbeDL9jJoYmwGP+ E8P0azjYlq6RGnmfgLlsu/Db86N+LDUxEeyVDz6l2OqJ3Bba7rChlumoGltE1c1srNkv VwXA==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533X/HpfJd1S93Y7nQXm7yuu9uKG+d2GQfI8IcUD/adO/qIooVhg qTKEdI7SBzNztbAb1eWX5I1JNodtl8Nc0yUiI8IMRuGJL/g=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJz4SX90Vtbx0c1n5cmdra0iuIgo2mzPaqPFt/mJsA5l/hUPW+PHsfydw3HzEjt01z9lyleMx0ZQC5ZIx6GJ5TA=
X-Received: by 2002:a25:5ce:: with SMTP id 197mr10298884ybf.53.1605727618141; Wed, 18 Nov 2020 11:26:58 -0800 (PST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <87ima2bkgb.fsf@fifthhorseman.net>
In-Reply-To: <87ima2bkgb.fsf@fifthhorseman.net>
From: Spencer Dawkins at IETF <spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2020 13:26:32 -0600
Message-ID: <CAKKJt-dMZUC2Cu+vp0U1HsENJVFqJDpoUJv7T21=uS-Trk=s9g@mail.gmail.com>
To: Daniel Kahn Gillmor <dkg@fifthhorseman.net>
Cc: Tools Team Discussion <tools-discuss@ietf.org>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000049107805b46698be"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tools-discuss/iYCsK2k9G3JWq4duu0ZWRrQ9p_k>
Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] polls "show of hands": can we include a "i don't understand" or "not enough information" option
X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion <tools-discuss.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/tools-discuss>, <mailto:tools-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/tools-discuss/>
List-Post: <mailto:tools-discuss@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:tools-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss>, <mailto:tools-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2020 19:27:01 -0000

FWIW, "binary questions hide information" matches my experience so far this
week.

I'm especially thinking of Gorry asking "who has read the draft?" in TSVWG
more than once, and realizing that he couldn't tell the difference between
"I haven't read the draft, but I care and I'm going to", and "I'm not going
to read the draft, because I don't care".

I am sympathetic to not dropping a dozen options for the group to read
through before clicking, but we can't even tell the difference between
packet congestion and packet corruption in TCP, if the only choices are
"ACKed" and "not ACKed".

I should also ask if this is a tool thng, or a social problem thing?

Best,

Spencer

On Wed, Nov 18, 2020 at 1:05 PM Daniel Kahn Gillmor <dkg@fifthhorseman.net>
wrote:

> Currently, when there's a show of hands in meetecho, there are two
> actions any participant can take:
>
>  - raise my hand
>  - do not raise my hand
>
> in my experience, if a meeting has 100 participants, you're lucky to get
> 50 that select either of the above options.  At least half tend to give
> no response at all.
>
> There are two reasons to give neither response though:
>
>  - the question is confusing, invalid, wrong, i didn't understand it, or
>    i'm not sure of the answer
>
>  - i am asleep/bored/not paying attention
>
> It'd be nice to be able to to distinguish between these two large
> classes of non-responding participants.  This is akin to including an
> "N/A" or "Don't know" answer in a multiple choice survey.
>
> Could such a option be added?  I don't want clutter with a dozen extra
> options, but it would be useful to know how many people are paying
> attention but object to the binary framing for whatever reason.
>
>        --dkg
> ___________________________________________________________
> Tools-discuss mailing list
> Tools-discuss@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss
>
> Please report datatracker.ietf.org and mailarchive.ietf.org
> bugs at http://tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb
> or send email to datatracker-project@ietf.org
>
> Please report tools.ietf.org bugs at
> http://tools.ietf.org/tools/issues
> or send email to webmaster@tools.ietf.org
>