Re: [Tools-discuss] Why do we even have text formats any more?

Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@gmx.de> Mon, 02 August 2021 05:33 UTC

Return-Path: <julian.reschke@gmx.de>
X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE8703A0A0C for <tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 1 Aug 2021 22:33:25 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.899
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=gmx.net
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rBw_QAbRV_fZ for <tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 1 Aug 2021 22:33:21 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.15.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 935C83A0A08 for <tools-discuss@ietf.org>; Sun, 1 Aug 2021 22:33:20 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1627882386; bh=/BW8VmDB39KJvzW1Ltb9gwq5HvloOdUawJ/tJAJKZcY=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Subject:To:Cc:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=Qz6aWZAFZcun3VLB/fYY4btgNY6k7SuySfJ0OExtd/+ylD6e1WuJOQU2wnlLPnw50 04j5SS+ti4SQSLeNDXlSdDF02yxcj/OVhk4BA+dvq704pV4GNLPl4GBA4u+JSRJl11 yGEE971KeaGrRffEadbqtGGWOPme01fw3Rbr4ufw=
X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c
Received: from [172.16.1.70] ([212.205.152.82]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx005 [212.227.17.190]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MTABZ-1mbDKv0d3P-00UbHm; Mon, 02 Aug 2021 07:33:06 +0200
To: Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org>
Cc: Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>, tools-discuss@ietf.org
References: <4d70a1ac-a275-420a-83f6-99dfd5b5385c@www.fastmail.com> <19431.1627486962@localhost> <ad0337d8-5d10-8d56-87e5-9562dc5130b5@gmx.de> <15399.1627683281@localhost> <ae53d5c2-40af-a2a6-451b-ad1b489229a2@gmx.de> <4F450849-DEF3-4C66-9D9B-336016BD798F@tzi.org>
From: Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@gmx.de>
Message-ID: <a4f70798-f022-fcbd-968d-3b137a337709@gmx.de>
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2021 07:33:04 +0200
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.12.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <4F450849-DEF3-4C66-9D9B-336016BD798F@tzi.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:Ob/CVVf7JluCpZfEdc3eE07ql9Ry9qwu7FHmkuiBpFOGmjpWtj2 inUg/nQey/Xh7gyf2pR87+O5n/f31q/HCxpFvierU2K4OSnl0hD/ZGjMvcam+aYme+3Moh0 CKeLdo8sZR+kGUAseHbCbDGJpf6sKyt2pT+3aHgf7ac7NfwkAGBIF19eJn3/gmCYxpThulg e0LLQb3MD4ORA+ENDCQng==
X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:SzJtmMg2bgQ=:nJPgWzSkN9r315XzFhciVK 8EwcfWxQec20xjdb2A4U6jm73A9LnL7vK48sXN3fg3us6ycqC8cYk493b80vAm2EXDhPaV4HY 6p/QcWC0gt+olMsXgXoeOBTmsbzxlpzyUM30lU6PftvmIKtz+qKJ48rV342ZGArolpCnWX1B/ 5eopegkvAqIYOUeUpgKmlL8smVDi7oIDsrfz3zkqeOsPnOD4iVtP4d+/N885yphh8eBJVkg5W FGXamwtked1x1GorZTjspg2+uSIH5ari1OF57LW6S4daTSK3b3jKKk0mFovX/OuzjmjZKf7Sr PIOTHGCqheMa63bz+XOOxUnrQgT4BpKLIh+5rWhu/+mNp/wN6AYApsQjt81WO2lOPVTOWTbsu R70+GJLYKjnEZG1rhy+tAUWJ3d4RZVkgyGy6fWMiek7nT3UdtcQ85cHWCTzP280+80/jmGCem oTxjkrirAtd/wJJmldhcAkW1/m6vKUZB9EBzn2J92YYADY41H/q4pkrD4gBJMyZN3+b2dZkw1 bPLOVzlDy/k7pDvoQxszFrfjyOrWbSCeLIm02ey/ElX8pr9jwWJsd9mktVDw/RRLAoZi062h6 Q8LUpfsj3tIDOQgv0PPCahTHpLdD/DRuBsmVsG8jXPrtC0fSvjB4QcW91uQMLt6yp3hOHxRGe TXBVuNaJkFpZR9d+TK+5ex2IaG9MaG+Py7+qJzfug9ryi/kuxdDaYX4KH/G7YDKTKmm2zabs8 kLlHIKFW2MB8LJXn266sRY/wZ+kQJJj2eSrNJrfuVbK/pek+ABR2z3aG/WY6o44J3OUyDbc4z +yrIn1F847qT4L9QOWCBpU2mM+eAJxPTQXLp4K5bYfYBOV8wTBR6aAzJM65laKyUcUDWwdXNi 9zlXZsBsGG73YqROHyimoiVYUPSqzbfpp+p8ELO5cy09EO48H0WLatJxVQkakIFc6aNanCXEH PMeMJ2ZWnpdrECKy2yWMY1EwomkhpWCl3kss/VZjMmYEjmTezvQ50mYhprI6RQxwXZuN+F8WU KgQZvCrvr86VKjUrfPO1D3wqg5aGCtweO7xwsPNepGU9fFyiLBVK5aEo/9ViSp2890j608UMF DaQPA6lcSkjUf4ejgzZj41PehHYSIwWVmzDSIgIiVmq3vG1B4N2kFaqng==
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tools-discuss/m_ykRIBtVMCN_e0EIU8BAJURRXk>
Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Why do we even have text formats any more?
X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion <tools-discuss.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/tools-discuss>, <mailto:tools-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/tools-discuss/>
List-Post: <mailto:tools-discuss@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:tools-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss>, <mailto:tools-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2021 05:33:26 -0000

Am 01.08.2021 um 17:55 schrieb Carsten Bormann:
> On 2021-07-31, at 06:31, Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@gmx.de> wrote:
>>
>> "extra stuff" such as?
>
> Wrong question.

It's the question I was interested in.

> Currently, we generate a TXT format from the XML, which (possibly among other renditions) is checked by the authors during AUTH48.  This format is there guaranteed to have the information that should survive a copy/paste into another text document (e.g., the comments in a program).
>
> The HTML plus the not further defined, platform specific conversion from HTML to TXT does not give us these assurances.  So removing the TXT format removes reliable copy/paste into other plaintext documents.
>
> 2⁶⁴ becomes 264.  “ “ becomes   .  Etc.

And that actually is an answer to me question!

> (Note that there are occasionally discussions to remove information from the TXT format to make it look more like the HTML, in particular because it would sometimes require information from the authors to always do this information generation properly for the TXT form.  These discussions need to be informed by the need to copy/paste RFC snippets into plaintext documents.)

I agree that it would be good to compile a list of use cases.

Best regards, Julian