Re: [Tools-discuss] <contact/>: asciiFullname should be latinFullname

Martin Thomson <mt@lowentropy.net> Wed, 07 October 2020 09:17 UTC

Return-Path: <mt@lowentropy.net>
X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 347AB3A16EC for <tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 7 Oct 2020 02:17:44 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.098
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=lowentropy.net header.b=QEu/WFv7; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=hOzeWwCr
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Mkk-pm52yfJU for <tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 7 Oct 2020 02:17:42 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from out2-smtp.messagingengine.com (out2-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.26]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 80D713A16EB for <tools-discuss@ietf.org>; Wed, 7 Oct 2020 02:17:42 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from compute1.internal (compute1.nyi.internal [10.202.2.41]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7F785C0110 for <tools-discuss@ietf.org>; Wed, 7 Oct 2020 05:17:41 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from imap10 ([10.202.2.60]) by compute1.internal (MEProxy); Wed, 07 Oct 2020 05:17:41 -0400
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=lowentropy.net; h=mime-version:message-id:in-reply-to:references:date:from:to :subject:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=fm3; bh=/jt3d CVTWUOIbfLISmAWWAmRoAwTqGGqFBztqpaFDKs=; b=QEu/WFv74+SBy5EVShMne upo3eJbAiE7QlpQsjt9MUirNB3agCeWZTEf57Wq9B/qLIKB9elKWhIc4RMkfB/Ho +jJOde6QZJNQ9TV+zecNJoN4/yu1Bznbv1dPdeI2CULG6OpwcEtkFRG0BIleNBHX ywnXSKPHvV8IFg1qSGnpdvAe+Ew4qIg/RyA1xuTRcMzRTiaMuvUajCkGbhoMsKvi z+dSjgNo4fFTCNqq7kdz/0MFe7dqC3GWWf1d06VtsphqktcclM9LGQ2LyjSNxE0p JhlAN9b98NATTGNwQ5GgSRTgWpKAKrgE7UFRjkT1oPdYnDdl1XN0JxNDpQPR8O49 w==
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender :x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=/jt3dCVTWUOIbfLISmAWWAmRoAwTqGGqFBztqpaFD Ks=; b=hOzeWwCrMORBIMALbPTpnAbsLkUVb32828HPXa291GWzCpwEih/vZhnVt B72iuGZpjzHNTfgzNmg/qk00mGterJfar24adub1YDo9J7fw4nHzmRh8HyzGjEZL tyCo4CZNbSnQT/wtqgMnzK1dnUd/Gcgj3StqpQ8ZLX5caxS2Zbmxq7/Yp33Xp7Xt ie6WlQmbwkJXeLs+xFEXKA4DA0i60OENrhErVEToLw/bOVSwPZ/usxvV5YkBObrW yW6WF07HFnPh9aF9EF0FfRwkSDlPaTT/L2QtwHUvmgkhitHjcFSnUKqg7Xnq0dOp 4vXIZH3ZRvI6Df1D+JOeY+OrAAviA==
X-ME-Sender: <xms:tYd9X3vghlrZQwWquX3FLCJTuf19yM8LlryzSj1m6cIsBqrQvRS5bQ> <xme:tYd9X4cydpyDqe4XUvRuWMPLmZfxfWXXAM1fwX9H8dv8-lDB_KYxEDKXXQoaW0fhP pAT7HIyP2aQwqecbW0>
X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedujedrgeeigddugecutefuodetggdotefrodftvf curfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfghnecu uegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecunecujfgurhepofgfggfkjghffffhvffutgfgsehtqh ertderreejnecuhfhrohhmpedfofgrrhhtihhnucfvhhhomhhsohhnfdcuoehmtheslhho figvnhhtrhhophihrdhnvghtqeenucggtffrrghtthgvrhhnpefftefgvedvhfdtffehje dufefhhfevhedufefhgfelleetieefgeefgffgleehgfenucffohhmrghinhepihgvthhf rdhorhhgnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehmrghilhhfrhhomh epmhhtsehlohifvghnthhrohhphidrnhgvth
X-ME-Proxy: <xmx:tYd9X6wljW2qwzLQszNMuLFTG7dqNfIcjkvVOckDV1jD-e_LSlGNhA> <xmx:tYd9X2P-ZJytKO7pkN-nqpqdNJ3UgIYzhcKDhQ75vgtlaSeaJGG7CA> <xmx:tYd9X38GFe3fqNYE6EZbma6GblymTY_ZDTxkdWecof7LBX6gWNJ-dg> <xmx:tYd9X6K_5tOXinDwfEWhEJDuGvFvsI5e223J948pmbzSSadoScrmKw>
Received: by mailuser.nyi.internal (Postfix, from userid 501) id 3DD1F20066; Wed, 7 Oct 2020 05:17:41 -0400 (EDT)
X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface
User-Agent: Cyrus-JMAP/3.3.0-407-g461656c-fm-20201004.001-g461656c6
Mime-Version: 1.0
Message-Id: <d837e60c-ac27-4766-828f-f7fe69bc92aa@www.fastmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <9b829546-e5cc-3f3d-73df-1de9781e8e39@gmx.de>
References: <E01F5548-0729-4B27-98F2-CA7C19C37CF1@tzi.org> <52B934D6-9ABC-4224-BF85-1D323B1AA6A7@bangj.com> <9b829546-e5cc-3f3d-73df-1de9781e8e39@gmx.de>
Date: Wed, 07 Oct 2020 20:17:23 +1100
From: "Martin Thomson" <mt@lowentropy.net>
To: tools-discuss@ietf.org
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tools-discuss/nQ61IeHiM20-GaAT9xPeqxcNEtA>
Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] <contact/>: asciiFullname should be latinFullname
X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion <tools-discuss.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/tools-discuss>, <mailto:tools-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/tools-discuss/>
List-Post: <mailto:tools-discuss@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:tools-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss>, <mailto:tools-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Oct 2020 09:17:44 -0000

I also agree with these fine folks.

There are reasons to show restraint.  And I thought that was what motivated very narrow rules.  For instance, we might not want quotes being anything other than '" because allowing variance leads to inconsistency.  Same for hyphen vs. en-dash and em-dash.  But the way to deal with that is to build tools that fix the issue one way or other.  xml2rfc is already aware of these problems and has some ability to manage that particular problem.  For instance, kramdown applies smart quotes from ", and then xml2rfc undoes that.

For the rest, a tool that highlights characters from outside a narrowly defined range (printable and whitespace ASCII for instance) would do wonders for ensuring that odd stuff doesn't creep in, like a BOM or a bunch of ZWNJ.  Beyond that, allowing people to have their names without having to resort to nasty hacks would be awesome.

On Wed, Oct 7, 2020, at 18:54, Julian Reschke wrote:
> Am 07.10.2020 um 08:51 schrieb Tom Pusateri:
> > ...
> > Another related question:
> >
> > How many times do we have to endure restrictions on UTF-8 characters in a UTF-8 document. Can we please just allow UTF-8 characters anywhere in a document?
> >
> > It’s not like we don’t have multiple levels of an editor process to resolve any issues with incorrect use.
> > ...
> 
> Indeed.
> 
> We shouldn't need a phrase-level "contact" element in the fist place.
> 
> Best regards, Julian
> 
> ___________________________________________________________
> Tools-discuss mailing list
> Tools-discuss@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss
> 
> Please report datatracker.ietf.org and mailarchive.ietf.org
> bugs at http://tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb
> or send email to datatracker-project@ietf.org
> 
> Please report tools.ietf.org bugs at
> http://tools.ietf.org/tools/issues
> or send email to webmaster@tools.ietf.org
>