Re: [Tools-discuss] Trial chat services: matrix and zulip

Matthew Hodgson <matthew@matrix.org> Thu, 01 October 2020 23:43 UTC

Return-Path: <matthew@matrix.org>
X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 000E43A0A13 for <tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Oct 2020 16:43:37 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.312
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.312 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.213, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (4096-bit key) header.d=matrix.org
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8OWC_b_FOlLc for <tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Oct 2020 16:43:36 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from polemos.matrix.org (polemos.matrix.org [94.237.46.156]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1F0473A0A06 for <tools-discuss@ietf.org>; Thu, 1 Oct 2020 16:43:36 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=matrix.org; s=polemos; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version :Date:Message-ID:From:References:To:Subject:Sender:Reply-To:Cc:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=ryK7y0V88J1pE5HRDveM2wuOAt7mH0O6+jx4+4FYtpQ=; b=APs/QRv4441C1QlaxfPNNr/14z 9UpPG/4mIrAwIQpjIXKkxwiMgLBkuKvBfgv6wG2cpgYak3UYZd46dAjOHbgpnySPkyQdHiOYV8SGv AtJiCAjfQBedxrsmvCyLq40mf5UjOmJqNnKP9AsF6/601AMOULZIBbVDOSCd0wZaXLHSvyjeKlsVb 3HtTG5WVKEpBTYf8+cyy+cq1Q33SHihwgvwyYZwRqDGwju+4TOUOAdruSyDs7NYUojDaJnOOZjTMp ZziifTCtrSa4P/abepqr4KHa+BiOZ1UkYUqkRpnfrArk2o89W0zp+HvtXTBT+mrCR4uWWHVa5R4Vh bsz/xtsprb29zcRe16L59UCm0nlWNJOhJ6Eukye0wdbpH5ebw/E7n5/JKb9plkfBAfyAW7lOd00rW ZITkksQkInMAOoHIgBs3X/z+f/hpViheCiwrQ1Pq2S32RM2T+9mhg0OcG/AAj83tNtZAJn8xTAQHZ tJUq8NwCo3mbH1KQ0qW0QVPGBb8SyyVXdM6NHPw2FY11WJ5XxbtHLyqMY9xKK3O2orLpzh7oydST2 eMGEl5ZmQh0mkslNBHY3S6pvKBaq02W/xE11c2qJ+Kp4M6xGW5cmLYaAiWEjT6ghyzoncAAzLklqy olWADZKtkNY7TZblHQ/HxVrYOmi6Z+PHeE1eEXG50=;
Received: from cpc152095-haye27-2-0-cust2.17-4.cable.virginm.net ([82.40.93.3] helo=bucephalus.local) by polemos.matrix.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from <matthew@matrix.org>) id 1kO8EY-0002qY-Mn for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Thu, 01 Oct 2020 23:43:34 +0000
To: tools-discuss@ietf.org
References: <3817345c-e25f-ec82-47af-5216a6234560@nostrum.com> <6BFA5C6F-E743-44CB-8F99-6FCDC6F04DC5@fugue.com>
From: Matthew Hodgson <matthew@matrix.org>
Message-ID: <021f6ab0-57c1-1b8d-9942-81f205f5bf81@matrix.org>
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2020 00:43:34 +0100
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:82.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/82.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <6BFA5C6F-E743-44CB-8F99-6FCDC6F04DC5@fugue.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tools-discuss/nWlaVfs_Y4H1lM-vIKpyLwTq4Ek>
Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Trial chat services: matrix and zulip
X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion <tools-discuss.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/tools-discuss>, <mailto:tools-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/tools-discuss/>
List-Post: <mailto:tools-discuss@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:tools-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss>, <mailto:tools-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Oct 2020 23:43:38 -0000

On Oct 1, 2020, at 10:33, Robert Sparks <rjsparks@nostrum.com> wrote:

> This does add to the potentially confusing large number of places conversation
> might take place. We hope to address that with some level of bridging, at least
> with Jabber, but have been cautioned by the respective development communities
> that bridging between Zulip and Matrix is unsatisfying since the conversation
> models in the two applications are so different.

It's true that Zulip<->Matrix bridging is unsatisfactory currently.  
Matrix actually has Zulip-style threading already under the hood 
(MSC2326: 
https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-doc/blob/matthew/msc2326/proposals/2326-label-based-filtering.md), 
but Element and other clients haven't yet implemented UI for it. This 
should change in future however.

> We are not, at this time, planning to host jabber accounts. We may revisit that
> as an option as we continue to gather more feedback.

On the other hand, XMPP<->Matrix bridging (and IRC<->Matrix bridging) is 
pretty good, and we maintain and run public bridges for both - which 
could provide continuity for those using Jabber.

M

-- 
Matthew Hodgson
Matrix.org