Re: [Tools-discuss] .txt? [I-D Action: draft-xxx.txt]

Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> Mon, 28 June 2021 21:48 UTC

Return-Path: <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6F893A142A for <tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 28 Jun 2021 14:48:47 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.436
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.436 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.338, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AMhAX3IKFnTg for <tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 28 Jun 2021 14:48:42 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-pj1-x102f.google.com (mail-pj1-x102f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::102f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AA9633A1426 for <tools-discuss@ietf.org>; Mon, 28 Jun 2021 14:48:42 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-pj1-x102f.google.com with SMTP id g6-20020a17090adac6b029015d1a9a6f1aso713796pjx.1 for <tools-discuss@ietf.org>; Mon, 28 Jun 2021 14:48:42 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=k8yI6XGrPjSuwyBSEKij/YtWeg1wGoaXuEnPE8YTX+E=; b=geDWN5BHsGUFRwMLJjTLaZUqCxZn5VaCVlNJev4Dc/6BXvHGQS10Pd16yddjK7F3/K d3hf1uc2Bdy3OrYm9PbrhDEDIcZ5NIiDnX4tmcazhn6XkViuSGFxgbOlwX9I03Y1oe9h fnJwkle9v5r0niwcWmLzWJ+kck50qDXn/8Rc877iQ2BJhW+yIF56vShJSIzG0zgTqYLm mgZdmJX/WN2zWIPctUjI1QSfEax+yZ54o2IcUpA0Abo7kI2AkiHM2HbxlhB/u+eL06Cj 6sef6yV8lYP7ZuMmb/8YQWZXTPNd9eEg7f1RIyWNYAuiza6pDPuJfHYeU4OPomLdCo0O uzYQ==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=k8yI6XGrPjSuwyBSEKij/YtWeg1wGoaXuEnPE8YTX+E=; b=HZMSpNf6oKrSBK0kcfG1rSGnvzuR3zbkbssO7/BdeAk0dAwEj9ESqp2RYcC9fH3Prv Jlr37f3CZZbS0riAsDK2Pfsq+GwHb5fniPQNALm4e5CA+uYu34A2EtL4L1R4XT2RklXL 3VNh9eeOIL/bueu0RkJ4xrYHIZ60C0W9vVuze7VXwrKQo4Tl4bgf+BlpBU27CbJcU3On LkW/wkKSgai6xEOO+VK5+MubV2szW0Hmf2zd1ClP1jxGlJqC8N+MJ57yPKPYA82MarvM 16VZl6Lt9POwoWpPGoj7KCvlm8tvfi7BcnScu+dnUl5MMHFPQ1buUZVrP5tFHLcqcuhP okbA==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530S2BTMmaVK0zqCgBFDN4DXJEcvlJRupr7/qepgTpp8VXJDW7rZ kiQHqZfbaWAFTL64BeT2DaZzG7UJ2uj8jQ==
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJw5lZmqcEJ6dwzEBXpGP0lccA6EYSH9r37jlV/jTMJxQPEiBFWlRxT+37heG/6jrZiNw5YYpQ==
X-Received: by 2002:a17:90b:198a:: with SMTP id mv10mr10288486pjb.67.1624916921445; Mon, 28 Jun 2021 14:48:41 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from ?IPv6:2406:e003:100d:901:80b2:5c79:2266:e431? ([2406:e003:100d:901:80b2:5c79:2266:e431]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id c24sm15563780pfd.167.2021.06.28.14.48.39 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 28 Jun 2021 14:48:40 -0700 (PDT)
To: Toerless Eckert <tte@cs.fau.de>, John R Levine <johnl@taugh.com>
Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org
References: <20210627013258.1D30F188447C@ary.qy> <691b91b6-86d7-2a3d-b9dc-8c19cc507db4@gmail.com> <584d34d6-5630-bbb7-35cc-9459dabc80f0@taugh.com> <82887902-90d0-3616-656b-fc39e4febd47@gmail.com> <70fee53d-28b9-874a-6988-6c1234ca149@taugh.com> <20210628193815.GL5057@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de>
From: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ffd86c27-82a0-8c92-d270-ab1c770acb99@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2021 09:48:36 +1200
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.10.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <20210628193815.GL5057@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Language: en-US
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tools-discuss/rDeV5p4_JFYl-Woauplx_VM9R0o>
Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] .txt? [I-D Action: draft-xxx.txt]
X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion <tools-discuss.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/tools-discuss>, <mailto:tools-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/tools-discuss/>
List-Post: <mailto:tools-discuss@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:tools-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss>, <mailto:tools-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2021 21:48:48 -0000

> I still don't know what else i as an author
> would benefit from in v3.

1. A very nice looking HTML result instead of a geeky thing.
2. UTF-8
3. SVG. Hard work to use, but well worth it.
4. Using tools that are currently maintained.

I've had no trouble at all editing XML in v3. The only real
annoyance is that the converter can't do anything sensible with
<vspace blankLines="1"/> which I used to use a lot. Everything
else is trivial.

(The converter insists on inserting lots of format="default"
and toc="default" which are just noise and can be deleted.)

Regards
   Brian

On 29-Jun-21 07:38, Toerless Eckert wrote:
> I only converted the last rfc i was editor for during the final revisions to go to rfc,
> and i only did this so i could use the only one new feature of v3 that i felt i wanted
> to use, name the Contributors tag. I still don't know what else i as an author
> would benefit from in v3.
> 
> I did find the conversion sufficient for that last mile to RFC editor, but not persuasive to
> suggest it to authors if/when they want to continue doing mayor edits to the document. This
> is primarily beceause the v3 ended up with a tag-verbose XMLv3 than the v2 i had
> edited for years. This specifically included inlining the rfc/draft references as opposed 
> to keeping the references, but also several other tags that where written out more verbosely
> and with a lot of default parameters (unnecessarily).  Hope i remember this all correctly.
> 
> This v2->v3 conversion process feels a bit like attempting to have a good idea but then
> outsource the conversion cost.  Reminds me of linux. Great new SDK/Library, but now all
> the third-party apps developed against an older version have to be rewritten. In comparison,
> in Windows i can have 10 versions of the same core SDK co-installed and all the old but
> still useful programs will still run. But no linux distributions do not support such slotting
> or do not compile all old library versions, and library developers don't care about supporting
> multi-slotting... *sigh*
> 
> Chers
>     Toerless
> 
> On Sat, Jun 26, 2021 at 10:40:40PM -0400, John R Levine wrote:
>>>> Among the many things on the to-do list is to redo the I-D submission page
>>>> to make it clearer that you only need to submit one version of a draft,
>>>> and that we'd appreciate the XML version if you have one.
>>>
>>> Excellent. Is there any reason not to run the v2 to v3 converter automatically?
>>
>> We really want people to stop using v2.  It's obsolete and missing some
>> semantic features of v3.
>>
>> Regards,
>> John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Taughannock Networks, Trumansburg NY
>> Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly
>>
>> ___________________________________________________________
>> Tools-discuss mailing list - Tools-discuss@ietf.org
>> This list is for discussion, not for action requests or bug reports.
>> * Report datatracker and mailarchive bugs to: datatracker-project@ietf.org
>> * Report tools.ietf.org bugs to: webmaster@tools.ietf.org
>> * Report all other bugs or issues to: ietf-action@ietf.org
>> List info (including how to Unsubscribe): https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss
>