Re: [Tools-discuss] <contact/>: asciiFullname should be latinFullname

Henrik Levkowetz <henrik@levkowetz.com> Wed, 07 October 2020 16:02 UTC

Return-Path: <henrik@levkowetz.com>
X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 515923A0AB7 for <tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 7 Oct 2020 09:02:51 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.112
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.112 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.213, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8FM0ebEP6-qq for <tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 7 Oct 2020 09:02:49 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from zinfandel.tools.ietf.org (zinfandel.tools.ietf.org [64.170.98.42]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B909C3A0AB2 for <tools-discuss@ietf.org>; Wed, 7 Oct 2020 09:02:49 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from h-202-242.a357.priv.bahnhof.se ([158.174.202.242]:59787 helo=tannat.localdomain) by zinfandel.tools.ietf.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from <henrik@levkowetz.com>) id 1kQBtw-0001Ai-PA; Wed, 07 Oct 2020 09:02:49 -0700
To: Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org>
References: <E01F5548-0729-4B27-98F2-CA7C19C37CF1@tzi.org> <632bd17a-0989-6fa9-4147-e54c00a657f2@levkowetz.com> <85fa7fbd-ffc1-b8c6-ddaf-c48119b530b1@gmx.de> <99A6F972-B807-4464-B4BD-F9B8E50C311A@tzi.org> <b019f3e8-b14f-a785-a630-494fee380c38@levkowetz.com> <649F6D05-2AC2-481A-B858-6E158DCF74F8@tzi.org>
Cc: RFC Interest <rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org>, Tools Team Discussion <tools-discuss@ietf.org>
From: Henrik Levkowetz <henrik@levkowetz.com>
Message-ID: <8f76e517-6d6a-f4dd-fb9b-a61a1db18723@levkowetz.com>
Date: Wed, 07 Oct 2020 18:02:41 +0200
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <649F6D05-2AC2-481A-B858-6E158DCF74F8@tzi.org>
Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-sha256"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="0fOlHTIaUvkaG0xkf4QEwDfpUfC8e7d8I"
X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 158.174.202.242
X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: tools-discuss@ietf.org, rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org, cabo@tzi.org
X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com
X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1 (built Mon, 26 Dec 2011 16:24:06 +0000)
X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on zinfandel.tools.ietf.org)
X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tools-discuss/tzCcJhFBdJcZYj8Vn2bGAoEJB-k>
Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] <contact/>: asciiFullname should be latinFullname
X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion <tools-discuss.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/tools-discuss>, <mailto:tools-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/tools-discuss/>
List-Post: <mailto:tools-discuss@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:tools-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss>, <mailto:tools-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Oct 2020 16:02:51 -0000

Hi Carsten,

On 2020-10-07 17:39, Carsten Bormann wrote:
> Hi Henrik,
> 
> I was trying to respond to Julian here.
> 
>> On 2020-10-07, at 17:01, Henrik Levkowetz <henrik@levkowetz.com> wrote:
>> 
>> As for what 7991 is really talking about, interpreting 'ASCII' as
>> “accessible to a reader familiar with the Latin writing system”, rather
>> than strictly ASCII, I'll leave that interpretation as yours.  That's not
>> the understanding I got from 7991.
> 
> Me neither, in particular with the example in the companion 7997 that
> gave an ASCII-only “identifier” (cleverly avoiding the
> transliteration/transcription dilemma) for a Latin name. However, it
> seems to me that it simply didn’t occur to the people involved in the
> process that led to RFC 799x that transliterations tend to use
> beyond-ASCII characters (or they considered pure-ASCIIness more
> important).
> 
>> I indicated earlier that I thought expanding the use use of Latin 
>> to the case you raised was reasonable, but it seems that response
>> wasn't enough for you, so now I have no idea of how to respond.
> 
> No, I totally agree with your response. I just tried to answer
> Julian’s question.

Ah, ok.  Good then.

> So we do need a bit of a variance here from RFC 7991. We could do
> that the same way all the other variances have been handled (such as
> introducing the <contact/> element that didn't exist in RFC 7991
> either).

I think the decision to permit Latin script for names applies here.  I
don't see this as a new decision, but a matter of applying an already
settled question consistently.


Best regards,

	Henrik

> Or we could somehow convince ourselves this is suddenly a
> major change (e.g., because the attributes are called
> “ascii”something they really should stay ASCII-only). I don’t think
> it is, but if I could post to the rfc-interest list, I would love to
> hear whether people there agree, too.
> 
> Grüße, Carsten
> 
> ___________________________________________________________
> Tools-discuss mailing list
> Tools-discuss@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss
> 
> Please report datatracker.ietf.org and mailarchive.ietf.org
> bugs at http://tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb
> or send email to datatracker-project@ietf.org
> 
> Please report tools.ietf.org bugs at
> http://tools.ietf.org/tools/issues
> or send email to webmaster@tools.ietf.org
>