From nobody Mon Apr 12 16:15:05 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FDAF3A15DE for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2021 16:15:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.119 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.119 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cryptonector.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id X4jJ2tyKDScn for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2021 16:14:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from donkey.elm.relay.mailchannels.net (donkey.elm.relay.mailchannels.net [23.83.212.49]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C4C603A15D9 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2021 16:14:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|nico@cryptonector.com Received: from relay.mailchannels.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C1F8542991; Mon, 12 Apr 2021 23:14:56 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a47.g.dreamhost.com (100-96-18-66.trex.outbound.svc.cluster.local [100.96.18.66]) (Authenticated sender: dreamhost) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id BA0E25422B8; Mon, 12 Apr 2021 23:14:55 +0000 (UTC) X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|nico@cryptonector.com Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a47.g.dreamhost.com (pop.dreamhost.com [64.90.62.162]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384) by 100.96.18.66 (trex/6.1.1); Mon, 12 Apr 2021 23:14:56 +0000 X-MC-Relay: Neutral X-MailChannels-SenderId: dreamhost|x-authsender|nico@cryptonector.com X-MailChannels-Auth-Id: dreamhost X-Print-Unite: 632735e43b38ac19_1618269296013_2302614412 X-MC-Loop-Signature: 1618269296013:1852932098 X-MC-Ingress-Time: 1618269296013 Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a47.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a47.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65B3681760; Mon, 12 Apr 2021 16:14:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=cryptonector.com; h=date :from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-type:in-reply-to; s=cryptonector.com; bh=sgpU76CKRotaVD 651RWTvFriKPY=; b=h5o6NQ/tQl7uwPooD13xfW+1XzI9w8NHWDNcxoZTeHkoVq g6/nNZyQxS+fMTQzyN/jqj/DMtY8kJgoe5wBzne8oGXRNPLW5W9Y8LW/m3DimwZa Qpcwyge9rJtjlQq1w2lMuZvuIGwHQZlK46itvxhabC8VDhf1fRIKXWBNEZFxI= Received: from localhost (unknown [24.28.108.183]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: nico@cryptonector.com) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a47.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 2FC807E5FC; Mon, 12 Apr 2021 16:14:51 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2021 18:14:49 -0500 X-DH-BACKEND: pdx1-sub0-mail-a47 From: Nico Williams To: Paul Hoffman Cc: rfc-interest , tools-discuss Message-ID: <20210412231448.GZ9612@localhost> References: <20557.1618171860@localhost> <66fd7812-4d2c-bf9d-d4bf-16c501754d7e@gmail.com> <4915F484-A2C4-44B0-BAF8-B3CF09D9450F@tzi.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.9.4 (2018-02-28) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] [rfc-i] what metric replaces page-count? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2021 23:15:04 -0000 On Mon, Apr 12, 2021 at 10:32:45AM -0700, Paul Hoffman wrote: > On 12 Apr 2021, at 10:12, Warren Kumari wrote: > > I really disliked the tone of "Time to move on from..." - I understand > > that > > Richard doesn't happen like this metric - but I'm disappointed that, > > increasingly, if you don't agree with someone in the IETF, the tone > > pivots > > to implying that there is something wrong with them, or that they are > > stupid, or similar... > > A strong +1 to what Warren said. As some of you might remember, I opposed > the creation of official PDFs because their use should be discouraged in > normal practice. I still fee that way. However, there's a wide gap between > "you would likely be better served by the new shiny if you gave it a chance" > and "you're wrong for wanting the old thing". Remind me why we're losing pagination? It's mostly about the tooling, right? Feel free to do so off-list to avoid flame war potential. I do accept that we're losing pagination. Nico --