[Tools-discuss] Re: Collection of glitches on the nonwg mailing lists list

[Robert Sparks <[e-mail]>]

No - that fix didn't make it to this release. It will come later in the 
week.

RjS

On 6/5/24 2:38 AM, Toerless Eckert wrote:
> This ?
>
> On Tue, May 28, 2024 at 11:55:27AM -0500, Robert Sparks wrote:
>> We'll address it with the next datatracker release.
>>
>> https://github.com/ietf-tools/datatracker/issues/7477
>>
>> RjS
>>
>> On 5/28/24 11:26 AM, Toerless Eckert wrote:
>>> [ Sorry if this is duplicate, i didn't track all recent messages to tools-discuss ]
>>>
>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/list/nonwg uses links to the mailing lists without
>>> the full email address, e.g.:
>>>
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/Iot-onboarding
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/enterprise
>>>
>>> When the name of the mailing list is capitalized, as in the first example (Iot-onboarding),
>>> the behavior is weird:
>>>
>>> - The browser shows a "Page not found" page rendered by mailman3.ietf.org
>>> - The URL says  https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/[e-mail]
>>>     - aka: still capitalized, but now with the added @ietf.org
>>>
>>> When you then try to enter/load that page, it does actually load the right page
>>> but (of course) changes it to non-capitalized:
>>>
>>> - https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/[e-mail]
>>>
>>>
>>> Not sure how you tools folks want to fix this. One option seems to be to de-capitalize the 204
>>> occurances of capital letters in those URLs in https://datatracker.ietf.org/list/nonwg.
>>> Or else make mailman3 do the decapitalization itself correctly..
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>>       Toerless
>
> On Tue, Jun 04, 2024 at 09:29:45PM -0400, John C Klensin wrote:
>> Sorry.  While the message below was sent to tools-help as directed on
>> the relevant page, I have just discovered it is a more general
>> problem.   Especially given Greg's recent note on the IETF list about
>> other Postorium/ Mailmain 3 issues, it may be worth warning others
>> and perhaps more general discussion.
>>
>> Apparently, if one goes to https://datatracker.ietf.org/list/nonwg (a
>> place some, I suspect many) of us go to track down information about
>> particular mailings lists, what they are called, and the location of
>> subscription information and archives, many of the entries have
>> broken links. In a non-trivial number of cases, the problem is that
>> the entry for list "foo" points to
>> https://mailman3.ietf.org/mailman3/lists/[e-mail]/ where it
>> should point to
>> https://mailman3.ietf.org/mailman3/lists/[e-mail]/, where the
>> actual information is available.
>>
>> While "i18ndir", as discussed below, may be obscure, I note, as
>> particularly interesting, that
>>     alldispatch
>>     architecture-discuss
>>     art
>>     eligibility-discuss
>>     gen-art
>>     hotrfc
>>     iab
>>     i-d-announce
>>     ietf-announce
>>     ima
>>     int-area
>>     mib-doctors
>>     mtgvenue
>>     ops-area
>>     rfp-announce
>>     rsab
>>     terminology
>>     tools-help
>>     tools-discuss
>>     training-wgchairs
>>     travel-grants-committee
>>     tsv-art
>>     wgguide
>> that is by no means a complete list but illustrates that the problem
>> spans a broad range of IETF Areas and IETF-related activities and
>> groups including the LLC, IAB, IRTF, and RFC Editor policies
>> (although RSWG does not appear on the list at all, something I think
>> has been noted previously).  Many other lists work.  I don't know if
>> they have been individually reported and patched or if there is some
>> pattern I cannot discern.
>>
>> But it is probably time, before we conclude that the transition to
>> Mailman3/ Postorius is complete, for someone to go through that page,
>> test all the links, and fix the ones that produce "no found"
>> errors... and do that before IETF 120 for which a subset of those
>> listed above (and maybe others) might be particularly important.
>>
>> Suggestion if that cannot be done Real Soon Now: It appears as if
>> there is a dedicated "page not found" catcher in Postorius because,
>> all of the bad links produce the same "Page not found": "This page
>> either doesn't exist, or it moved somewhere else." page.   Can that
>> be modified to suggest that people inspect the URL that produced that
>> page and, if it contains upper-case characters, they experiment with
>> changing them to lower case and trying the URL again.  I've tried
>> several, but not all, of the cases listed above and those that I
>> tried worked.  Obviously not ideal, but better than leaving people
>> wondering and frustrated.
>>
>> More below about digging into a specific case and a few other
>> problems.
>>
>> best,
>>     john
>>
>>
>>
>> --On Tuesday, June 4, 2024 20:11 -0400 John C Klensin
>> <[e-mail]> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi.
>>> On <https://datatracker.ietf.org/list/nonwg>, the entry for
>>> "i18ndir" points to
>>> <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I18ndir>, which produces a
>>> "page not found" message.
>>>
>>> This appears to be another instance of a case-sensitivity problem
>>> because https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i18ndir produces a
>>> relevant page.
>>>
>>> I'm uncertain about the status of that list.  On the one hand, the
>>> directorate was closed some time ago.    On the other, it might be
>>> the last useful centralized list for i18n discussions or, if there
>>> is another one, it should probably be reflected on the i18ndir page
>>> once it can be found in the obvious way.
>>>
>>> Also, IIR, while the directorate was active, directorate (and hence
>>> mailing list) membership was by invitation.  This page seems to
>>> imply that anyone can now join, which might or might not be what is
>>> wanted.
>>>
>>> The ADs should probably make up their minds and then the link should
>>> be corrected and the mailing list page tweaked and/or the entry
>>> moved from the "nonWG" page to the "concluded" one.
>>>
>>> General suggestion to the tools team: Unless we have decided that
>>> the "owners" of a mailing list should be secret, it would be a good
>>> idea to list them, and maybe their addresses, on the mailing list
>>> pages. If we have decided their names are secret, I question that
>>> decision given that, e.g., we make WG Chair names and the like
>>> public.  At worst, the names should be omitted only if list owners
>>> request that and get approval some someone like a relevant AD.
>>>
>>> Probably even more important, there have been enough problems with
>>> reaching people via ietf.org address aliases that, unless you are
>>> confident that those problems have been solved --now and forever--
>>> identifying mailing list "owners" by name (and probably address) on
>>> the mailing list pages is particularly relevant.
>>>
>>> best,
>>>     john
>>
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