RE: First_Name, Last_Name is no good

Eastlake III Donald-LDE008 <> Fri, 19 March 2004 21:18 UTC

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Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 16:18:14 -0500
From: Eastlake III Donald-LDE008 <>
Subject: RE: First_Name, Last_Name is no good
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Thanks for this comment. The working group is also in
receipt of a number of other comments from that IESG that
need responses. See

While I believe your criticism is correct, we need to give some
consideration to backward compatibility with those systems that
have in implemented ECML v1.1 (RFC 3106). (See also the IESG
Note on the front page of the earlier RFC 2706.) The ECML standard
is primarily an internal data naming/structure standard and the
names it specifies are not necessarily ever seen by end users.
Given this, I am wondering if it would be sufficient to document
First_Name and Last_Name, which have essentially not explanation
in the current draft, so as to explain how to handle other cases.

(Everyone on the list is welcome to comment on this. This list
has been too dead recently and more traffic would be welcome.)


PS: One minor comment. The IETF is an international organization
so its standards or informational documents are not "United
States" standards or informational documents.
 Donald E. Eastlake III
 Motorola Laboratories               1-508-786-7554 (work)
 111 Locke Drive                     1-508-634-2066 (home)
 Marlboro, MA 01752

-----Original Message-----
From: Peter, James J. [] 
Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 4:46 PM
Subject: First_Name, Last_Name is no good

I suggest that this group lead the United States away from the "First_Name, Last_Name" identifier convention because it is culturally biased and dysfunctional.  It does not accommodate the naming conventions of Hispanic families, for example, where five names in a particular order identify an individual.  Plus in some other countries the surname is given first.
"Given_Name, Sur_Name" should be used at the minimum. 

A world-wide multicultural standard is needed. 

James J. Peter 
Johns Hopkins University 
Applied Physics Laboratory 
11100 Johns Hopkins Road 
Laurel, MD  20723-6099 
443-778-5958  from Baltimore, or 
240-228-5958  from Washington DC 
Fax 443-778-6921, or 240-228-6921