Re: [tram] Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-tram-stun-pmtud-10: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)

Simon Perreault <Simon.Perreault@logmein.com> Thu, 13 December 2018 13:12 UTC

Return-Path: <prvs=9885c4309e=simon.perreault@logmein.com>
X-Original-To: tram@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: tram@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B0F5130DD3; Thu, 13 Dec 2018 05:12:14 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -19.16
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-19.16 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-1.46, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5, USER_IN_DEF_SPF_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=logmein.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZdM1PX7IS4YN; Thu, 13 Dec 2018 05:12:11 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mx0b-001a0901.pphosted.com (mx0b-001a0901.pphosted.com [67.231.152.111]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7D48B130DD7; Thu, 13 Dec 2018 05:12:05 -0800 (PST)
Received: from pps.filterd (m0074899.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0b-001a0901.pphosted.com (8.16.0.27/8.16.0.27) with SMTP id wBDCw44Z005878; Thu, 13 Dec 2018 08:12:00 -0500
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=logmein.com; h=from : to : cc : subject : date : message-id : references : in-reply-to : content-type : mime-version; s=email; bh=QrEbcl9akg5a52NjbPjTTYuTvWZT4fh8GVpzMMLDS2w=; b=C2hdA5rrbOv9pKq1eR//UDsCa1DP9MQ/vsJtOo/I2jPQ8NYa7q3qmFrrtmLgMHSNp+yY BEsni6t7WwIGJaUwNXkYfDMrzSDz4/L+uzaCAQlyWhCtRlDiVKEjitv//pJD6EU9VqTP l06jZFn7+Z/754QfKupZPjfWMH35JAmeInQ=
Received: from nam01-sn1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-sn1nam01lp2055.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.32.55]) by mx0b-001a0901.pphosted.com with ESMTP id 2pbfbyrv5x-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Thu, 13 Dec 2018 08:12:00 -0500
Received: from MWHPR15MB1200.namprd15.prod.outlook.com (10.175.2.142) by MWHPR15MB1807.namprd15.prod.outlook.com (10.174.255.135) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.1425.18; Thu, 13 Dec 2018 13:11:58 +0000
Received: from MWHPR15MB1200.namprd15.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::5b9:4a61:9fe0:b7b1]) by MWHPR15MB1200.namprd15.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::5b9:4a61:9fe0:b7b1%2]) with mapi id 15.20.1425.016; Thu, 13 Dec 2018 13:11:58 +0000
From: Simon Perreault <Simon.Perreault@logmein.com>
To: Spencer Dawkins at IETF <spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com>
CC: Adam Roach <adam@nostrum.com>, IESG <iesg@ietf.org>, "tram-chairs@ietf.org" <tram-chairs@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-tram-stun-pmtud@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-tram-stun-pmtud@ietf.org>, Gonzalo Camarillo <gonzalo.camarillo@ericsson.com>, "Asveren, Tolga" <tasveren@rbbn.com>, "tram@ietf.org" <tram@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-tram-stun-pmtud-10: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
Thread-Index: AQHUWQNKbxGEYwDhVEaOcLCOF8V9tqVX4rYAgAV4EwCAHuZkgIAA1NWg
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2018 13:11:58 +0000
Message-ID: <MWHPR15MB1200F7BE766A80509FBFBE75FAA00@MWHPR15MB1200.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>
References: <153834237082.13405.1228259718885034461.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <CAKKJt-fouMOJa+eGUwEmQL+Uv5Fqe5KNM_fC0YxmhYojpFNzaA@mail.gmail.com> <CA447D15-2E65-4340-9FF5-4700A53335ED@logmein.com> <CAKKJt-cG=R5ide_qHx5hNKbYwxhDKmwk0tOQutNPYBJp8L7HUA@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAKKJt-cG=R5ide_qHx5hNKbYwxhDKmwk0tOQutNPYBJp8L7HUA@mail.gmail.com>
Accept-Language: fr-CA, en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
x-originating-ip: [70.81.184.192]
x-ms-publictraffictype: Email
x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; MWHPR15MB1807; 6:AeRFlVyJ49MYy6H0K9n4bvUA081sQl8hX86K98wGtW/JrCS7VF4wIz9KHAot91Xw8mxuwFTQk2jErwdIRV1vkBNaB6REkrZsPRvuIohtSi31l4XG6dqCWA3e/YnF5yaKkKB3PjzXBUqyR9HflN/dMIaqb6/zSPngbuDhAXxGHXNwTWoQHquJUJGs6THt+4r/V2das4/r5vQFgQ56BUi3H6Xwlnz+RHacmYSEmEdQ+8fHVrbybjFGaZVMMZgXSB5GvjcJ/DHn/DSoYeogZbO94oPqd1FEspWyPsCYSlGq1Zl8hsg96ySJwRbIKRSYzFMhA7EqiWqbiN9HIhHPzZNdJBeiKfkdcvGNNvHGsdxZOHhkz6MqMQIEFjUjthfa4i/YHzg+fKu9A0NmOTz5Jq2354fOFN/Cgly2s+4Hd3noz+4+4Noj3IECqsuQr6Xxxf7+7e85jkPkvf8tFVPNgOY2jg==; 5:0tOWgiE665BkYcSH0+yHfA0IRkMRsrzYFRRSv1jgf6RT8BteEQbABujZXGCfSyH+wkxVC+YBmciu//pHVrG24oL9amK7Zks4cXxq3jTc39cOA7n8kxBeEKWE+OBB/KWMKGgtLXjNEi2w/dIOb1+9QKPcHyOUPhrT9YVcPp0udxI=; 7:/Ah8moSm0Xp2XNK0bR1gHoULScWmLXw1YWY0thFl4Mra3SQzwoYmmFTaDAckkkQkz9G6QkdWV/cRC08NCVkvtRSTrjK0culLA4f7LK83Jm87KcvfOqN0kXa+GItFtPTePof+ekCgu2JZpDE7v5QgbQ==
x-ms-exchange-antispam-srfa-diagnostics: SOS;
x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 15dd66ad-a1f8-4e47-53cf-08d660fc8fec
x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(2390098)(7020095)(4652040)(8989299)(4534185)(4627221)(201703031133081)(201702281549075)(8990200)(5600074)(711020)(2017052603328)(7153060)(7193020); SRVR:MWHPR15MB1807;
x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: MWHPR15MB1807:
x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: <MWHPR15MB18074BA6929E3345EC5407D3FAA00@MWHPR15MB1807.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>
x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1
x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(8211001083)(3230021)(999002)(6040522)(2401047)(5005006)(8121501046)(10201501046)(3002001)(93006095)(93001095)(3231475)(944501520)(52105112)(148016)(149066)(150057)(6041310)(201703131423095)(201702281528075)(20161123555045)(201703061421075)(201703061406153)(20161123562045)(20161123558120)(20161123564045)(20161123560045)(201708071742011)(7699051)(76991095); SRVR:MWHPR15MB1807; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:MWHPR15MB1807;
x-forefront-prvs: 088552DE73
x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(39860400002)(376002)(396003)(136003)(366004)(346002)(78642003)(199004)(189003)(6916009)(6246003)(39060400002)(53936002)(4326008)(2906002)(76176011)(256004)(55016002)(54896002)(9686003)(5660300001)(6306002)(14454004)(14444005)(25786009)(26005)(186003)(478600001)(72206003)(81166006)(8676002)(81156014)(6506007)(790700001)(6116002)(3846002)(66066001)(8936002)(68736007)(6436002)(97736004)(33656002)(102836004)(74316002)(54906003)(316002)(7736002)(93886005)(86362001)(486006)(11346002)(446003)(229853002)(476003)(99286004)(71200400001)(71190400001)(106356001)(7696005)(105586002)(69594002); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:MWHPR15MB1807; H:MWHPR15MB1200.namprd15.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1;
received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: logmein.com does not designate permitted sender hosts)
x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: Cy8FS5xW/DOOaFSghxUvFDAJcN4lpnCDF41znQFp6LnllgZk6B2Exvv5aDR3XVNfKbgcbdaN896F39/xdxy1l2Y4VRSq+u203/8LIqTUgNspNXNIMjLjYJqA/VXIq9jcD7BRMNAGNjWlqCq4/AUNm397TM5LsgBtm9ATDheb7C2C5P0bq3b0/GMP63gVZL5R5vERBvGRc5fn4Do9PExHLpgBqhNPCZQfLs4fUgG2Biynu88va4jotv7ESLLpInTGckZbmlgRXrT5KEw4Uyt3iFum/n3J3UZpEw4N8brKGHDJDqz4kbJBukmiTEFG4Wf8
spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99
spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_MWHPR15MB1200F7BE766A80509FBFBE75FAA00MWHPR15MB1200namp_"
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-OriginatorOrg: logmein.com
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 15dd66ad-a1f8-4e47-53cf-08d660fc8fec
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 13 Dec 2018 13:11:58.0837 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 84c4e5b0-26a0-4dac-b686-301d76713569
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: MWHPR15MB1807
X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:, , definitions=2018-12-13_03:, , signatures=0
X-Proofpoint-Spam-Reason: safe
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tram/EfFiYhqDh-dzTbC4_BUa2oiH0do>
Subject: Re: [tram] Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-tram-stun-pmtud-10: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
X-BeenThere: tram@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: "Discussing the creation of a Turn Revised And Modernized \(TRAM\) WG, which goal is to consolidate the various initiatives to update TURN and STUN." <tram.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/tram>, <mailto:tram-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/tram/>
List-Post: <mailto:tram@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:tram-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tram>, <mailto:tram-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2018 13:12:15 -0000

- Pull the definition of PADDING into this document. Declare that we've gathered sufficient experience with PADDING that it now warrants being elevated to Standards Track. That is, it's been proven to work.

This is plausible. It solves the first-order problem.

I note that RFC 5780 defined a number of new attributes. Is pulling PADDING forward the right thing to do, or are there others that would also qualify (so, perhaps a status change for RFC 5780)?

I don’t think the others have been implemented much, so that’s why I think only pulling PADDING makes sense. If I remember correctly, I only implemented PADDING in Numb (I don’t have access to the source code anymore so can’t be sure).

Anyone else with an opinion?

Simon