Re: [Trans] DNSSEC also needs CT

Joseph Bonneau <jbonneau@gmail.com> Mon, 12 May 2014 17:55 UTC

Return-Path: <jbonneau@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: trans@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: trans@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91A021A0745 for <trans@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 12 May 2014 10:55:10 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.999
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aX4GthrTVfY9 for <trans@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 12 May 2014 10:55:08 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-ve0-x232.google.com (mail-ve0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c01::232]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 591591A0741 for <trans@ietf.org>; Mon, 12 May 2014 10:55:08 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-ve0-f178.google.com with SMTP id sa20so9231777veb.37 for <trans@ietf.org>; Mon, 12 May 2014 10:55:02 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type; bh=xhu0CRXChWiYzv/TfRCe67JhChEMm6GXhqsKKnP92GY=; b=EYVGMA8Yvqit8PXFLdnsF+8+kIuU7NJol6Lz4MpzK7Q3oVxkq89+GqiK6xV195m9zw XfEul9QU8jlYG07mKXRb1NW0H4hkwahPyx/8iX4IkHDFUgnxGFL0i2pW9T3CXcvld0t2 1JwPUvJafs/wMKBy4+OSfa2pianUf5cJ0iTJdo86s44TnXB0O6YDO/Cqh5NARAFVozfW JHDeJHoIxRBsWZxgKIM5+gu+/P4ORyFbQU2XMVVQmp+xbb9AT6ozgkKQKwlaiYfTiVoJ 248PFAJ0dLnyQkZNe0rKoo8D8Bo4asTP8RRS3/hAqYIYLkbhcIvi1T639pSDzaYjcJ+e snsQ==
X-Received: by 10.52.125.147 with SMTP id mq19mr8990510vdb.2.1399917302023; Mon, 12 May 2014 10:55:02 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: by 10.220.86.136 with HTTP; Mon, 12 May 2014 10:54:41 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <CAK3OfOiYMJkXVR+QsCzEV0ir6u53coJz0b-JdGGD5bTTz5YcMg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAK3OfOjiL2DTJPH3CaAjg8YGrrwN56SgQ+DnqPXx4MLbgXQN+A@mail.gmail.com> <CAMm+Lwieij8Tm8V-gpE0eAfwie1dgtFL_Ga8dPkJFKJKLQDAcA@mail.gmail.com> <CAK3OfOiKjY6YyiyeHiFJrecZfj_uQ-2k+KucKnzb9Yt8VCRPOQ@mail.gmail.com> <CAHw9_iKpN7AXfrH6SzroMukrKTPR5z24U9KfWpVW-F2R_wX3ag@mail.gmail.com> <alpine.LFD.2.10.1405101722240.897@bofh.nohats.ca> <CABrd9ST7K-7RGwGD2G+kDcVSceC2ZJ-5Tz2tdp5NWa3cqBK+-w@mail.gmail.com> <CAOe4Ui=nqmCfjBYNE2CJtEs1jnbavpY4Dv-T3FRDdAwAA2dScg@mail.gmail.com> <CAK3OfOiYMJkXVR+QsCzEV0ir6u53coJz0b-JdGGD5bTTz5YcMg@mail.gmail.com>
From: Joseph Bonneau <jbonneau@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 12 May 2014 13:54:41 -0400
Message-ID: <CAOe4Ui=u0fkm9_nuXx_6gpH6jHM5pBvzjzru9O8y3bpLkA0qmw@mail.gmail.com>
To: Nico Williams <nico@cryptonector.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=bcaec51b97b3808eb004f937a55a
Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/trans/HhCaYBRvhnQSuMUXOymZ1O0ug3M
Cc: Warren Kumari <warren@kumari.net>, "trans@ietf.org" <trans@ietf.org>, Paul Wouters <paul@nohats.ca>, Ben Laurie <benl@google.com>
Subject: Re: [Trans] DNSSEC also needs CT
X-BeenThere: trans@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: Public Notary Transparency working group discussion list <trans.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/trans>, <mailto:trans-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/trans/>
List-Post: <mailto:trans@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:trans-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/trans>, <mailto:trans-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 May 2014 17:55:10 -0000

>
>
> Clients (lazily perhaps).  The public.  Domain owners.  Registrars.
>

Certainly possible, but I wonder how much this will happen in a world of
thousands of DNSSEC-CT logs existing for various domains. Some of them will
inevitably screw up. Will it be front-page news the 10th time that happens
due to server outages or administrative screwups? I imagine it will be kind
of like using an expired x.509 cert today. People on hackernews might
comment if a top website did it, but not an emergency board meeting type of
situation for that company.

With CT for x.509 certs the assumption is that smaller number of logs are
run which are very important and any screwup is a BFD. I don't know if that
assumption scales to thousands of DNSSEC-CT logs.


> Remember, com. and . cannot merely MITM foo.bar.com.  com. would have
> to MITM bar.com. as well.  And . would have to MITM com. too.  These
> would be noticeable.


What about a compelled creation attack (or undetected key compromise) where
malicious entries are signed by the genuine evil.com key? For example, say
evilhosting.com gives me jbonneau.evilhosting.com and I care that they only
sign my records for this domain so that nobody can MITM my site. But they
secretly agree to give the government of Elbonia a signed record for my
domain and then fail to log them properly. They can do this without any
compromise or intervention of com, right?