Re: [trill] Fwd: Mail regarding draft-ietf-trill-over-ip
Joe Touch <touch@isi.edu> Mon, 04 May 2015 16:13 UTC
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Date: Mon, 04 May 2015 09:12:29 -0700
From: Joe Touch <touch@isi.edu>
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To: Xuxiaohu <xuxiaohu@huawei.com>, Donald Eastlake <d3e3e3@gmail.com>, "trill@ietf.org" <trill@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [trill] Fwd: Mail regarding draft-ietf-trill-over-ip
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On 5/3/2015 8:19 PM, Xuxiaohu wrote: > Hi Joe, > > I'm wondering whether your proposal as below is also applicable to > other UDP-based encapsulation approaches which have not yet considered > doing fragmentation on the tunnel layer, such as GENEVE, VXLAN-GPE, > GRE-in-UDP and NSH-UDP. Again: We know of at least four things that tunnels need that IP-in-UDP ignores: - stronger checksums - fragmentation support - signalling support (e.g., to test whether a tunnel is up or to measure MTUs) - support for robust ID fields (related to fragmentation, e.g., to overcome the limits of IPv4 ID as per RFC 6864) I haven't scrubbed GUE to ensure that all four are addressed, but it may be more than the above, and certainly it's important not to start from scratch needlessly. Joe > > Best regards, > Xiaohu > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: trill [mailto:trill-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Joe Touch >> Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2015 3:48 AM >> To: Donald Eastlake; trill@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [trill] Fwd: Mail regarding draft-ietf-trill-over-ip >> >> Hi, all, >> >> Have you considered GUE as an encapsulation layer? >> >> Encapsulating anything in UDP directly has a number of hazards, including >> support for at-rate fragmentation, IPv4 ID generation, etc., that GUE is intended >> to address. >> >> Joe >> >> On 5/1/2015 9:58 AM, Donald Eastlake wrote: >>> Forwarded with permission. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Donald >>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>> From: *Donald Eastlake* <d3e3e3@gmail.com <mailto:d3e3e3@gmail.com>> >>> Date: Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 9:26 AM >>> Subject: Re: Mail regarding draft-ietf-trill-over-ip >>> To: Mingui Zhang <zhangmingui@huawei.com >>> <mailto:zhangmingui@huawei.com>> >>> >>> Hi Mingui, >>> >>> Thanks for these comments! See below. >>> >>> On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 4:27 AM, Mingui Zhang <zhangmingui@huawei.com >>> <mailto:zhangmingui@huawei.com>> wrote: >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> I read the document. It's comprehensive and well written. Below, several >> comments for your information. >>>> >>>> 1. It's not clear how the ports IPs are associated with the ports? Maybe, >> we can add some words to explain that they can be got from DHCP or manual >> configuration? Or we just say it is out the scope of this document. >>> >>> Yes, they need to be configured. Could be DHCP or manual or maybe some >>> sort of orchestration thing... Seems reasonable to mention this in the >>> draft. >>> >>>> 2. Is it helpful to add a reference topology? Terminologies, such as IP >> tunnel, port IPs, RBridges can be put onto this figure. A walk-through example >> based on this reference topology can be used to explain how the IP tunnel is set >> up, how does a TRILL Data packet get encapsulated/decapsulated and >> transported in the IP tunnel. I think this would be educational. >>> >>> A few more network diagrams would probably be helpful. If you look at >>> the minutes from the Dallas TRILL WG meeting, the suggestion of having >>> a couple of example packets was supported... >>> >>>> 3. Both IP and TRILL have specified BFD. Since TRILL is dependent on IP >> in TRILL-over-IP, it's unnecessary to have both TRILL and IP interact with BFD. It's >> best to assert TRILL-over-IP will have the IP interact with BFD. Please refer to >> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5882#section-4.4 >>> >>> Well, if you are only going to use one then I agree with the section >>> you reference in RFC 5882 and you should do BFD over IP. But that >>> doesn't check the TRILL stack, just the IP and lower stacks. So we >>> could recommend just using IP BFD but I don't think we should try to >>> prohibit people from also using BFD over TRILL on the link. >>> >>>> 4. Is the IP link in this document "a single link (physical, or a secure >> tunnel such as IPsec)"? Then, we can require the TTL "MUST be set to the >> maximum on transmit, and checked to be equal to the maximum value on >> reception (and the packet dropped if this is not the case)." See also RFC 5880 >> Section 9. >>> >>> I don't think so. There is nothing wrong with the communication >>> between two TRILL IP ports being multiple IP hops. Even if IPsec is in >>> use, it could be integrated with the TRILL over IP port at one end but >>> at the other end, the IPsec implementation could be integrated with a >>> firewall a couple of hops from the RBridge... >>> >>>> 5. There are six tiny typos marked in the attached doc. >>> >>> OK. We'll fix this up in the next version. >>> >>> Maybe you should post these comments, or some of them, to the TRILL WG >>> mailing list. It would be good if there was more discussion of drafts >>> there. Or if it OK with you, I could just forward your comments and my >>> responses to the list... >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Donald >>> ============================= >>> Donald E. Eastlake 3rd +1-508-333-2270 <tel:%2B1-508-333-2270> (cell) >>> 155 Beaver Street, Milford, MA 01757 USA d3e3e3@gmail.com >>> <mailto:d3e3e3@gmail.com> >>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Mingui >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> trill mailing list >>> trill@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/trill >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> trill mailing list >> trill@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/trill
- [trill] Fwd: Mail regarding draft-ietf-trill-over… Donald Eastlake
- Re: [trill] Fwd: Mail regarding draft-ietf-trill-… Joe Touch
- Re: [trill] Fwd: Mail regarding draft-ietf-trill-… Donald Eastlake
- Re: [trill] Fwd: Mail regarding draft-ietf-trill-… Donald Eastlake
- Re: [trill] Fwd: Mail regarding draft-ietf-trill-… Xuxiaohu
- Re: [trill] Fwd: Mail regarding draft-ietf-trill-… Tom Herbert
- Re: [trill] Fwd: Mail regarding draft-ietf-trill-… Joe Touch
- Re: [trill] Fwd: Mail regarding draft-ietf-trill-… Joe Touch
- Re: [trill] Fwd: Mail regarding draft-ietf-trill-… Xuxiaohu
- Re: [trill] Fwd: Mail regarding draft-ietf-trill-… Templin, Fred L
- Re: [trill] Fwd: Mail regarding draft-ietf-trill-… Joe Touch
- Re: [trill] Fwd: Mail regarding draft-ietf-trill-… Joe Touch
- Re: [trill] Fwd: Mail regarding draft-ietf-trill-… Templin, Fred L
- Re: [trill] Fwd: Mail regarding draft-ietf-trill-… Joe Touch
- Re: [trill] [sfc] Fwd: Mail regarding draft-ietf-… Joe Touch
- Re: [trill] Fwd: Mail regarding draft-ietf-trill-… Templin, Fred L
- Re: [trill] [nvo3] Fwd: Mail regarding draft-ietf… Tom Herbert
- Re: [trill] Fwd: Mail regarding draft-ietf-trill-… Joe Touch
- Re: [trill] Fwd: Mail regarding draft-ietf-trill-… Tom Herbert
- Re: [trill] Fwd: Mail regarding draft-ietf-trill-… Templin, Fred L
- Re: [trill] Fwd: Mail regarding draft-ietf-trill-… Tom Herbert
- Re: [trill] Fwd: Mail regarding draft-ietf-trill-… Joe Touch
- Re: [trill] Fwd: Mail regarding draft-ietf-trill-… Joe Touch
- Re: [trill] Fwd: Mail regarding draft-ietf-trill-… Joe Touch
- Re: [trill] Fwd: Mail regarding draft-ietf-trill-… Joe Touch
- Re: [trill] Fwd: Mail regarding draft-ietf-trill-… Templin, Fred L
- Re: [trill] Fwd: Mail regarding draft-ietf-trill-… Templin, Fred L
- Re: [trill] Fwd: Mail regarding draft-ietf-trill-… Joe Touch
- Re: [trill] [sfc] Fwd: Mail regarding draft-ietf-… Joe Touch
- Re: [trill] [sfc] Fwd: Mail regarding draft-ietf-… Templin, Fred L
- Re: [trill] [sfc] Fwd: Mail regarding draft-ietf-… Joe Touch
- Re: [trill] [sfc] Fwd: Mail regarding draft-ietf-… Templin, Fred L
- Re: [trill] [sfc] Fwd: Mail regarding draft-ietf-… Joe Touch
- Re: [trill] [sfc] Fwd: Mail regarding draft-ietf-… Templin, Fred L
- Re: [trill] [sfc] Fwd: Mail regarding draft-ietf-… Joe Touch
- Re: [trill] Fwd: Mail regarding draft-ietf-trill-… Xuxiaohu
- Re: [trill] Fwd: Mail regarding draft-ietf-trill-… Xuxiaohu
- Re: [trill] [sfc] Fwd: Mail regarding draft-ietf-… Templin, Fred L
- Re: [trill] Fwd: Mail regarding draft-ietf-trill-… Templin, Fred L
- Re: [trill] [sfc] Fwd: Mail regarding draft-ietf-… Joe Touch
- Re: [trill] [sfc] Fwd: Mail regarding draft-ietf-… Templin, Fred L
- Re: [trill] Fwd: Mail regarding draft-ietf-trill-… Xuxiaohu