Re: [trill] [Lime] Adoption call for draft-deepak-trill-yang-pm (12/15/2014 to 12/30/2014)
Donald Eastlake <d3e3e3@gmail.com> Wed, 17 December 2014 17:06 UTC
Return-Path: <d3e3e3@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: trill@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: trill@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A256A1A8F44; Wed, 17 Dec 2014 09:06:14 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.749
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.749 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NyNuthqe2oJp; Wed, 17 Dec 2014 09:06:08 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-ob0-x22d.google.com (mail-ob0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c01::22d]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 28A961A8F50; Wed, 17 Dec 2014 09:05:36 -0800 (PST)
Received: by mail-ob0-f173.google.com with SMTP id uy5so4771237obc.4 for <multiple recipients>; Wed, 17 Dec 2014 09:05:11 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type; bh=J67Z0XoJsE5u91c2dxYRH30P1eOXf09rfQM7AHVXij8=; b=Gjhu+qw/m74HiaSqjBZVzodhmdhPOyCc5RBDx3g/ribz4kNyZ1bg55DE4azzZ6CgZH NH8/lH3zmeWIotJM75pkOWBB5BNwvORD7ouH2LYfARch5eBYfYbtt2oZw/IKvChT2mEZ ZTTXvWxdVOKCjdZEodrVzbSaBJxN+stPvgddhXMsc7kOpgxSXirEXSsz9H4U6ASSROdz 5jhv5Z7xJpBXM5KnnnG38XLGD0sQ0dY0lLEAGDVX/aV0n/mqD0Cj08dZjCLT0KnXM37c v5QFOOjOp+nZKinkV4Lko02LdibVkEtdVyOaiH2VxdXrca/aCJrnqHiL+gsdRH2owIrU +mJg==
X-Received: by 10.182.120.10 with SMTP id ky10mr26629861obb.68.1418835910284; Wed, 17 Dec 2014 09:05:10 -0800 (PST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: by 10.76.147.105 with HTTP; Wed, 17 Dec 2014 09:04:50 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA84693738@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com>
References: <09e501d018e5$8d8f4aa0$a8addfe0$@ndzh.com> <C242F93D-D95C-4612-B565-357D21EC2382@cisco.com> <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA84693738@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com>
From: Donald Eastlake <d3e3e3@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2014 12:04:50 -0500
Message-ID: <CAF4+nEHY8jZ1w-N95JzJtpVd2np80YXoSv-Rkr9zWKZ9cKTpXw@mail.gmail.com>
To: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>, Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="089e0139fc286d5c0b050a6c7a8e"
Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/trill/LGV82LfAHkVXOVMEzfKoWqXAXpA
Cc: "lime@ietf.org" <lime@ietf.org>, "trill@ietf.org" <trill@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [trill] [Lime] Adoption call for draft-deepak-trill-yang-pm (12/15/2014 to 12/30/2014)
X-BeenThere: trill@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: "Developing a hybrid router/bridge." <trill.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/trill>, <mailto:trill-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/trill/>
List-Post: <mailto:trill@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:trill-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/trill>, <mailto:trill-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2014 17:06:15 -0000
Hi Carlos and Qin, Thanks, Carlos, for reviewing and commenting on this draft. I'm sure your comments will help improve the draft. However, I do not agree on the process points. It is important to distinguish between adopting a draft, that is taking a personal draft under the control of its authors and making it a Working Group draft under the control of the Working Group, and the final Working Group consensus determination (usually involving a WG Last Call) to request RFC publication of a draft. More polished drafts are obviously better than drafts with lots of nits, references incorrectly categorized are Normative or Informative, and the like, That sort of thing needs to be fixed before RFC publication is requested, but I do not think it has to be fixed before adopting the draft. A draft can be adopted by a Working Group even if there are much worse problems in the draft, such as serious technical flaws or inconsistencies, as long as the Working Group thinks it is a plausible starting point to work from. Just adopting the draft is not a guarantee that there will later be Working Group consensus to request RFC publication. Of course, you would expect a draft to be improved after it has been adopted and before RFC publication is requested. The normative references process point is a bit less clear cut. It is very common for drafts to be fully approved all the way through being in the RFC Editor's queue despite normative dependencies on other drafts that are at a much earlier stage in the process. If you go to http://www.rfc-editor.org/queue2.html and search for "MISSREF" you will find many fully approved drafts whose publication is being held up by normative references to other drafts that are not yet approved (or, in some cases, held up by a normative reference to an approved draft that in turn normatively references anther draft that is not yet approved or even longer normative reference chains with the last draft in the chain not approved). The TRILL WG has frequently approved drafts with one or more normative dependencies that had not yet been approved. On the other hand, if the Working Group feels it is appropriate to delay, it certainly can hold up on requesting publication of a draft until it is satisfied with the status of normative references from that draft. Thanks, Donald ============================= Donald E. Eastlake 3rd +1-508-333-2270 (cell) 155 Beaver Street, Milford, MA 01757 USA d3e3e3@gmail.com On Wed, Dec 17, 2014 at 3:36 AM, Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com> wrote: > > Agree with Carlos, it is process issue. Usually a I-D will not be > adopted until all the normative referenced drafts get proceeded. > > > > Regards! > > -Qin > > *发件人:* Lime [mailto:lime-bounces@ietf.org] *代表 *Carlos Pignataro > (cpignata) > *发送时间:* 2014年12月16日 23:03 > *收件人:* Susan Hares > *抄送:* Donald Eastlake; jon.hudson@gmail.com; lime@ietf.org; trill@ietf.org > *主题:* Re: [Lime] Adoption call for draft-deepak-trill-yang-pm (12/15/2014 > to 12/30/2014) > > > > Sue, Jon, > > > > I have a few concerns with this document: > > - The Abstract says “It extends Yang Data Model for TRILL OAM > [TRILLOAMYANG]”, however, [TRILLOAMYANG] is listed as an Informative > reference — I believe it should be Normative (all the definitions are > coming from it, and this doc extends that model) > > > - It seems the same issue exists with draft-ietf-trill-yang-oam > and [GENYANGOAM], which should be Normative there. > - By the way, a nit as well (the Abstract includes citations). > > > - Ditto for [GENYANGOAM], as the text says “In this document we extend > the YANG model defined in [GENYANGOAM]” > - There’s a non-insignificant set of Nits which frankly should be > taken care of before this call for adoption (see > http://www.ietf.org/tools/idnits?url=http://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-deepak-trill-yang-pm-00.txt) > > > > - This severely detracts from readability. > > > > I believe these are blocking for adoption. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Carlos. > > > > On Dec 15, 2014, at 11:05 PM, Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com> wrote: > > > > This begins a 2 week WG adoption call for draft-deepak-trill-yang-pm-00 > which can be found at: > > > > http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-deepak-trill-yang-pm/ > > > > This draft will be reviewed along with other yang modules at the > 12/17/2014 interim of trill held from 9-10pm ET (6-7pm PT, 10-11am Beijing > on 12/18/2014). In your review, please indicate the following: a) if this > yang module provides information necessary to manage or monitor *TRILL*, > and b) if you support adoption this work into the TRILL WG. > > > > Sue Hares and Jon Hudson > > Co-chairs > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Lime mailing list > Lime@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lime > > >
- [trill] Adoption call for draft-deepak-trill-yang… Susan Hares
- Re: [trill] [Lime] Adoption call for draft-deepak… Deepak Kumar (dekumar)
- Re: [trill] [Lime] Adoption call for draft-deepak… Qin Wu
- Re: [trill] [Lime] Adoption call for draft-deepak… Donald Eastlake
- Re: [trill] [Lime] Adoption call for draft-deepak… Donald Eastlake
- Re: [trill] [Lime] Adoption call for draft-deepak… Qin Wu
- Re: [trill] [Lime] Adoption call for draft-deepak… Qin Wu