Re: [trill] [Lime] Adoption call for draft-deepak-trill-yang-pm (12/15/2014 to 12/30/2014)

Donald Eastlake <d3e3e3@gmail.com> Wed, 17 December 2014 17:06 UTC

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From: Donald Eastlake <d3e3e3@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2014 12:04:50 -0500
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To: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>, Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com>
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Cc: "lime@ietf.org" <lime@ietf.org>, "trill@ietf.org" <trill@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [trill] [Lime] Adoption call for draft-deepak-trill-yang-pm (12/15/2014 to 12/30/2014)
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Hi Carlos and Qin,

Thanks, Carlos, for reviewing and commenting on this draft. I'm sure your
comments will help improve the draft.

However, I do not agree on the process points. It is important to
distinguish between adopting a draft, that is taking a personal draft under
the control of its authors and making it a Working Group draft under the
control of the Working Group, and the final Working Group consensus
determination (usually involving a WG Last Call) to request RFC publication
of a draft.

More polished drafts are obviously better than drafts with lots of nits,
references incorrectly categorized are Normative or Informative, and the
like, That sort of thing needs to be fixed before RFC publication is
requested, but I do not think it has to be fixed before adopting the draft.
A draft can be adopted by a Working Group even if there are much worse
problems in the draft, such as serious technical flaws or inconsistencies,
as long as the Working Group thinks it is a plausible starting point to
work from. Just adopting the draft is not a guarantee that there will later
be Working Group consensus to request RFC publication. Of course, you would
expect a draft to be improved after it has been adopted and before RFC
publication is requested.

The normative references process point is a bit less clear cut. It is very
common for drafts to be fully approved all the way through being in the RFC
Editor's queue despite normative dependencies on other drafts that are at a
much earlier stage in the process. If you go to
http://www.rfc-editor.org/queue2.html
and search for "MISSREF" you will find many fully approved drafts whose
publication is being held up by normative references to other drafts that
are not yet approved (or, in some cases, held up by a normative reference
to an approved draft that in turn normatively references anther draft that
is not yet approved or even longer normative reference chains with the last
draft in the chain not approved). The TRILL WG has frequently approved
drafts with one or more normative dependencies that had not yet been
approved. On the other hand, if the Working Group feels it is appropriate
to delay, it certainly can hold up on requesting publication of a draft
until it is satisfied with the status of normative references from that
draft.

Thanks,
Donald
=============================
 Donald E. Eastlake 3rd   +1-508-333-2270 (cell)
 155 Beaver Street, Milford, MA 01757 USA
 d3e3e3@gmail.com

On Wed, Dec 17, 2014 at 3:36 AM, Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com> wrote:
>
>  Agree with Carlos, it is process issue. Usually a I-D will not be
> adopted until all the normative referenced drafts get proceeded.
>
>
>
> Regards!
>
> -Qin
>
> *发件人:* Lime [mailto:lime-bounces@ietf.org] *代表 *Carlos Pignataro
> (cpignata)
> *发送时间:* 2014年12月16日 23:03
> *收件人:* Susan Hares
> *抄送:* Donald Eastlake; jon.hudson@gmail.com; lime@ietf.org; trill@ietf.org
> *主题:* Re: [Lime] Adoption call for draft-deepak-trill-yang-pm (12/15/2014
> to 12/30/2014)
>
>
>
> Sue, Jon,
>
>
>
> I have a few concerns with this document:
>
>    - The Abstract says “It extends Yang Data Model for TRILL OAM
>    [TRILLOAMYANG]”, however, [TRILLOAMYANG] is listed as an Informative
>    reference — I believe it should be Normative (all the definitions are
>    coming from it, and this doc extends that model)
>
>
>     - It seems the same issue exists with draft-ietf-trill-yang-oam
>       and [GENYANGOAM], which should be Normative there.
>       - By the way, a nit as well (the Abstract includes citations).
>
>
>    - Ditto for [GENYANGOAM], as the text says “In this document we extend
>    the YANG model defined in [GENYANGOAM]”
>    - There’s a non-insignificant set of Nits which frankly should be
>    taken care of before this call for adoption (see
>    http://www.ietf.org/tools/idnits?url=http://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-deepak-trill-yang-pm-00.txt)
>
>
>
>     - This severely detracts from readability.
>
>
>
> I believe these are blocking for adoption.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> Carlos.
>
>
>
>  On Dec 15, 2014, at 11:05 PM, Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> This begins a 2 week WG adoption call for draft-deepak-trill-yang-pm-00
> which can be found at:
>
>
>
> http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-deepak-trill-yang-pm/
>
>
>
> This draft will be reviewed along with other yang modules at the
> 12/17/2014 interim of trill held from 9-10pm ET (6-7pm PT, 10-11am Beijing
> on 12/18/2014).  In your review, please indicate the following:  a) if this
> yang module provides information necessary to manage or monitor *TRILL*,
> and b) if you support adoption this work into the TRILL WG.
>
>
>
> Sue Hares and Jon Hudson
>
> Co-chairs
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
>
>