Re: [trill] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-trill-fine-labeling-02.txt
Thomas Narten <narten@us.ibm.com> Mon, 19 November 2012 15:39 UTC
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To: Donald Eastlake <d3e3e3@gmail.com>
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Comments: In-reply-to Donald Eastlake <d3e3e3@gmail.com> message dated "Tue, 06 Nov 2012 15:42:42 -0500."
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2012 10:34:11 -0500
From: Thomas Narten <narten@us.ibm.com>
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Subject: Re: [trill] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-trill-fine-labeling-02.txt
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(repost with proper subject) I have read the document, and want to raise some basic questions about this document. An original premise for this document was that it would use the same Ethertype=0x8100 encoding for the inner header as the the base protocol. This was done for backwards-compatability with base RBs and to allow non-FGL aware RBs to forward FGL frames. Under this assumption, having the labels split into two different parts using separate fields made sense. However, with the -01 revision, the above assumption has been thrown out. FGLs now use a different ethertype encoding, and various parts of the document make it clear that an RB operates in either FGL or VL mode, with no overlap or backwards compatability. RBs implementing VL are not supposed to receive or process FGL formatted TRILL data frames. Given that, I do not see a compelling justification for retaining the "double tagging" encoding format the current document supports. Specifically, I'd suggest: 1) not having separate high-order and low-order FGL fields; just define one field that is 24 bits long. 2) Remove the second ethertype=0x893B field completely. We are just wasting 2 bytes. (the field serves no useful purpose and must always hold the value of 0x893B.) 3) While I don't have a strong opinion either way, I would also like to see a justification for having an "Alternate Priority" field. The base TRILL protocol doesn't have one. Why is it needed for FGLs? Under the previous encapsulation format, we got the extra priority "for free" since it was part of the TAG, but I'd like to see the rational/use case for having this extra field stand on its own merits. Is this just a "what the heck, why not" field? Or is there a compelling use case for it? I am also uncomfortable with some of the wording in the document regarding "silicon". > 2. Silicon Considerations > > Fine-grained labeling (FGL) should, to the extent practical, use > existing features, processing, and fields that are already > supported in at least some fast path silicon implementations that > currently support the TRILL base protocol. This makes sense. We do not want to pick encodings that will be problematatic for silicon (generally). However, we also need to balance such a desire against not restricting our design solely to favor, say, one particular implementation. (I am not suggesting that is being done here, just pointing out that if the current encoding does favor certain implementations, we need to be upfront about that, and discuss the implications openly.) > 2. Silicon Considerations: Existing TRILL fast path silicon chips can > perform base TRILL Header insertion and removal to support ingress > and egress. In addition, it is believed that most such silicon > chips can also perform the native frame to FGL mapping and the > encoding of the FGL as specified herein, as well as the inverse > decoding and mapping. Some existing silicon can perform only one > of these operations on a frame in the fast path and is thus not > suitable to implement fast path TRILL FGL processing; however, > other existing chips are believed to be able to perform both > operations on the same frame in the fast path and are suitable for > FGL implementation. My impression in talking to folk familiar with silicon implementations is that silicon has gotten pretty good at being able to extract fields from fixed arbitrary offsets into a packet. Thus, while they may be able to extract the two separate labels and combine them (as the current proposal calls for), they can just as easily extract a single label of 24 bits. If we are going to stick with the current encoding, I'd like to hear directly from the silicon implementors why that is *necessary* and why they cannot support the more natural/obvious format for 24-bit labels. I have additional comments on the draft, but they may not be relevant depending on how the above points are resolved. Thomas
- [trill] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-trill-fine-label… Donald Eastlake
- Re: [trill] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-trill-fine-l… Mingui Zhang
- Re: [trill] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-trill-fine-l… Jon Hudson
- Re: [trill] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-trill-fine-l… hu.fangwei
- Re: [trill] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-trill-fine-l… gayle noble
- Re: [trill] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-trill-fine-l… Naveen Nimmu
- Re: [trill] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-trill-fine-l… zhai.hongjun
- Re: [trill] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-trill-fine-l… Sunny Rajagopalan
- Re: [trill] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-trill-fine-l… Radia Perlman
- Re: [trill] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-trill-fine-l… Rajeev Manur
- Re: [trill] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-trill-fine-l… Yizhou Li
- Re: [trill] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-trill-fine-l… Sujay Gupta
- Re: [trill] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-trill-fine-l… Donald Eastlake
- Re: [trill] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-trill-fine-l… Olen Stokes
- [trill] 答复: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-trill-fine-l… Haoweiguo
- Re: [trill] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-trill-fine-l… Thomas Narten
- Re: [trill] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-trill-fine-l… Donald Eastlake
- Re: [trill] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-trill-fine-l… Thomas Narten
- Re: [trill] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-trill-fine-l… Donald Eastlake
- Re: [trill] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-trill-fine-l… Radia Perlman
- Re: [trill] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-trill-fine-l… Donald Eastlake
- Re: [trill] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-trill-fine-l… Thomas Narten
- Re: [trill] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-trill-fine-l… Anoop Ghanwani
- Re: [trill] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-trill-fine-l… Phanidhar Koganti
- Re: [trill] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-trill-fine-l… Anoop Ghanwani
- Re: [trill] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-trill-fine-l… Olen Stokes
- Re: [trill] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-trill-fine-l… Rajeev Manur
- Re: [trill] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-trill-fine-l… Radia Perlman
- Re: [trill] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-trill-fine-l… Donald Eastlake
- Re: [trill] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-trill-fine-l… Donald Eastlake
- [trill] 答复: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-trill-fine-l… Xuxiaohu
- Re: [trill] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-trill-fine-l… Donald Eastlake
- Re: [trill] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-trill-fine-l… Phanidhar Koganti
- Re: [trill] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-trill-fine-l… Tal Mizrahi
- Re: [trill] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-trill-fine-l… Olen Stokes
- Re: [trill] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-trill-fine-l… Olen Stokes
- Re: [trill] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-trill-fine-l… Donald Eastlake
- Re: [trill] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-trill-fine-l… Donald Eastlake
- Re: [trill] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-trill-fine-l… Olen Stokes
- Re: [trill] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-trill-fine-l… Thomas Narten
- Re: [trill] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-trill-fine-l… Radia Perlman
- Re: [trill] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-trill-fine-l… Donald Eastlake
- Re: [trill] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-trill-fine-l… Thomas Narten
- Re: [trill] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-trill-fine-l… Olen Stokes
- Re: [trill] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-trill-fine-l… Olen Stokes
- Re: [trill] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-trill-fine-l… Donald Eastlake
- Re: [trill] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-trill-fine-l… Donald Eastlake
- Re: [trill] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-trill-fine-l… Olen Stokes
- Re: [trill] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-trill-fine-l… Radia Perlman
- Re: [trill] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-trill-fine-l… Donald Eastlake