Re: statement regarding keepalives

Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@mit.edu> Thu, 16 August 2018 22:57 UTC

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Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2018 17:57:15 -0500
From: Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@mit.edu>
To: Joe Touch <touch@strayalpha.com>
Cc: Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net>, HMikael Abrahamsson <swmike@swm.pp.se>, "tsv-area@ietf.org" <tsv-area@ietf.org>, "tsvwg-ads@tools.ietf.org" <tsvwg-ads@tools.ietf.org>, "tls-ads@ietf.org" <tls-ads@ietf.org>, "netconf-chairs@ietf.org" <netconf-chairs@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: statement regarding keepalives
Message-ID: <20180816225715.GH40887@kduck.kaduk.org>
References: <D3326DE0-3F31-4045-B945-82B3F417BE4B@juniper.net> <alpine.DEB.2.20.1807201340240.14354@uplift.swm.pp.se> <B50DC954-CBB6-41C5-BE3A-F1DECD6046A5@juniper.net> <717202c9c6c6b3d083bfa4c8a9925e45@strayalpha.com> <6377766E-9A03-41BA-A4D4-8796F46278BD@juniper.net> <20180816221059.GG40887@kduck.kaduk.org> <B3FA514D-4082-4C36-B487-B9B6AB46BF9D@strayalpha.com>
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On Thu, Aug 16, 2018 at 03:52:54PM -0700, Joe Touch wrote:
> 
> 
> On Aug 16, 2018, at 3:10 PM, Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@mit.edu> wrote:
> 
> >> Keepalives at a layer SHOULD NOT be interpreted as implying state at
> >> any other layer.
> > 
> > What's going on here in the last sentence is probably a bit subtle -- a
> > keeaplive both does not indicate "real" protocol activity but also can
> > serve to exercise the lower protocol layers (and, even, per the previous
> > sentence, suppresses their keepalives).
> 
> That may be intended but is never actually known. Lower layers can compress, cache, merge, and otherwise change the effect a transmission st one layer has on any other. 

Right, that's why it's subtle :)

-Benjamin

> Protocols should avoid trying to do this. 
> 
> Joe