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Re: [Tsv-art] game over, EH [Tsvart last call review of draft-ietf-opsec-ipv6-eh-filtering-06]

Spencer Dawkins at IETF <spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com> Thu, 06 December 2018 14:06 UTC

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From: Spencer Dawkins at IETF <spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2018 08:05:53 -0600
Message-ID: <CAKKJt-eNCeV4hS=v99NGAYFkkmLdSO5Cp9gk2ojdbZ5vrU7img@mail.gmail.com>
To: Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>
Cc: gert@space.net, IETF list <ietf@ietf.org>, draft-ietf-opsec-ipv6-eh-filtering.all@ietf.org, heard@pobox.com, morrowc.lists@gmail.com, opsec@ietf.org, tsv-art@ietf.org, Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [Tsv-art] game over, EH [Tsvart last call review of draft-ietf-opsec-ipv6-eh-filtering-06]
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Speaking as an individual who ballots on working group charters ...

On Thu, Dec 6, 2018 at 7:38 AM Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>
wrote:

>
>
> On 06/12/2018 12:57, Gert Doering wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > On Thu, Dec 06, 2018 at 10:28:53AM +0000, Stewart Bryant wrote:
> >> However, aren't we moving to a world where new protocols get carried
> >> over UDP anyway?
> > Over HTTPS, you intended to say?
> Some and some.  It depends on what aspect of the stack you spend your
> time thinking about.
>

"you're both right" :-) ...

As noted earlier in this thread, we punted new transport protocols into UDP
encapsulation at roughly the "we can't get SCTP deployed at scale, we can't
get DCCP deployed at scale, and we don't see any reason to think that any
new transport protocol will be any different" stage, at least a decade ago.
So, when I see people talking about SCTP, it's usually in a context like
RTCWeb, where the stack looks like SCTP/DTLS/UDP, and QUIC is only defined
over UDP.

(I suspect the world would have been a slightly better place if we'd done
the DCCP encapsulation in UDP from day 1, because DCCP functionality could
have been really useful when we started encapsulating every known network
protocol in UDP, but that's not relevant to this discussion)

But since QUIC's initial deliverable includes its HTTP mapping,
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-httpbis-bcp56bis/ comes into
play. I would oversimplify that draft as saying "we are way more excited
about applications using HTTP as a substrate now, than we were in 2002",
so, yes, the future smells a lot like HTTPS over (mumble) over UDP, at
least to me.

I don't know that's a perfect plan, but I've been balloting on working
group charters for at least 3 years, assuming that it's a plan.

Spencer


> - Stewart
>
> >
> > Gert Doering
> >          -- NetMaster
>
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