Re: [tsvwg] ecn-encap-guidelines reframing section

Jonathan Morton <chromatix99@gmail.com> Wed, 24 March 2021 10:38 UTC

Return-Path: <chromatix99@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: tsvwg@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: tsvwg@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CA2F3A29F1; Wed, 24 Mar 2021 03:38:51 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.848
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.848 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lK4rkY2hl9SJ; Wed, 24 Mar 2021 03:38:45 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-lj1-x22f.google.com (mail-lj1-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::22f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 354BB3A29EF; Wed, 24 Mar 2021 03:38:45 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-lj1-x22f.google.com with SMTP id y1so29536627ljm.10; Wed, 24 Mar 2021 03:38:45 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=nDftc3Pf8pmLxprgYvfv1ZIW1iy6Zj7iCr0F2TnTEHY=; b=pZ/zFLc0LNpFlKSkIr8I6ogf057otqhJmw7goBOurAiM+dAbiHcMdhUdWGeZsarBdo kSnEiX/SQ/oDnGQZ36/yc34aBunk9W7TP301/pp0nB1yR3qW4ubG49eOq1e48pQK0nTn Ng71nRyfaaMr+zPZEL1RmQhXeiuHem2DDTath1UyCW6YluxPZgihwyrVzPKcrZWkgJW9 f6USpAZ+PaSHF15u59Db3oySUmldK58wPufV0ouswrXwgjy9Nq4LfGnpE8CQRdB0OO9m AgNmcbRZ+vCT2GBYloz3MWmegC7vK+IGMy0w74ahi8pF6NSzoAOvqCQ7VzWQX9cdU5ft imgg==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=nDftc3Pf8pmLxprgYvfv1ZIW1iy6Zj7iCr0F2TnTEHY=; b=nv7iUYa/0/6a/ymySRJQmwAD1umsWpcHlX4FIY3u3vPWlSxpnkpkvLLlMnOv5B+QFK fIqX8wYKgjRFsBcPdc6DeN76v6NTR1rjWHMiAyjaQBngicjqljP6DFFTA671+K1bWedO x1G6vyn2p2gjeLtuE0/KXkIavjlfqWREe6s2Ms5Zkym05g4gR+yrkjsqAnsg8UW6NtaS 0vNrGjJKVubAgTGTpQBWbWuVnsXwJGN1btjqiwro69LG/K5GoOX+RoAv5SoNOXk+MzV9 MMQ4PFI+xDoVDcEt1f5j5CQOXK24JhK5jd1yBt2yzTD2/TX25QNprS8dR3WY3qkhHXtb WERg==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532nwcVIfxDUs9UrcfdaGeiN/FsZp1En2+CoHvW6JjgG3taDDz8R 8ymifkvHdCV8M4qEgAhGi4A=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzriYGUdbvl66KvxjNRBor0YBLzskNCv1PX7ms/QhKWSueAVuJrrMWDLN7f5ZxkGySl+ixpgA==
X-Received: by 2002:a2e:a306:: with SMTP id l6mr1633971lje.251.1616582321570; Wed, 24 Mar 2021 03:38:41 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from jonathartonsmbp.lan (178-55-25-11.bb.dnainternet.fi. [178.55.25.11]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id q3sm190241lfp.233.2021.03.24.03.38.40 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 24 Mar 2021 03:38:41 -0700 (PDT)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.7\))
From: Jonathan Morton <chromatix99@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <6b9f2527-ccbd-af2a-caa3-8a0b7c234aa6@bobbriscoe.net>
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2021 12:38:39 +0200
Cc: "Black, David" <David.Black@dell.com>, Markku Kojo <kojo@cs.helsinki.fi>, Joe Touch <touch@strayalpha.com>, Markku Kojo <kojo=40cs.helsinki.fi@dmarc.ietf.org>, "tsvwg-chairs@ietf.org" <tsvwg-chairs@ietf.org>, "tsvwg@ietf.org" <tsvwg@ietf.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Message-Id: <E4D39A11-0433-46DC-8E5F-EADD10E80F4A@gmail.com>
References: <CE03DB3D7B45C245BCA0D243277949363076629A@MX307CL04.corp.emc.com> <CE03DB3D7B45C245BCA0D2432779493630768173@MX307CL04.corp.emc.com> <6D176D4A-C0A7-41BA-807A-5478D28A0301@strayalpha.com> <CE03DB3D7B45C245BCA0D24327794936307688C5@MX307CL04.corp.emc.com> <alpine.DEB.2.21.1911171041020.5835@hp8x-60.cs.helsinki.fi> <9024d91a-bb08-fb45-84f8-ce89ba90648d@bobbriscoe.net> <alpine.DEB.2.21.2012141735030.5844@hp8x-60.cs.helsinki.fi> <1e038b64-8276-3515-ac45-e0fc84e1c413@bobbriscoe.net> <alpine.DEB.2.21.2103081540280.3820@hp8x-60.cs.helsinki.fi> <3c778eb9-56dc-3d58-0de4-c6373d1090ec@bobbriscoe.net> <alpine.DEB.2.21.2103181233160.3820@hp8x-60.cs.helsinki.fi> <8ac0d6dd-1648-ee8d-d107-55ef7fe7695f@bobbriscoe.net> <CD5B98D1-9BAE-4B74-8751-A8AF293AEFC3@gmail.com> <MN2PR19MB4045C7AD9873F378FB542CF283659@MN2PR19MB4045.namprd19.prod.outlook.com> <10cb995d-7ac0-99c8-4013-5ea8a518e643@bobbriscoe.net> <MN2PR19MB40451E51462D82DF2F81D18183639@MN2PR19MB4045.namprd19.prod.outlook.com> <6b9f2527-ccbd-af2a-caa3-8a0b7c234aa6@bobbriscoe.net>
To: Bob Briscoe <ietf@bobbriscoe.net>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.7)
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tsvwg/3ORBl2rJPTrIObrXgVzjK8Hkv4k>
Subject: Re: [tsvwg] ecn-encap-guidelines reframing section
X-BeenThere: tsvwg@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Transport Area Working Group <tsvwg.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/tsvwg>, <mailto:tsvwg-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/tsvwg/>
List-Post: <mailto:tsvwg@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:tsvwg-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tsvwg>, <mailto:tsvwg-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2021 10:38:51 -0000

A quick aside:

> On 24 Mar, 2021, at 11:48 am, Bob Briscoe <ietf@bobbriscoe.net> wrote:
> 
> {Note 1} For instance, the average proportion of marked packets is 'p' in the well known Reno formula,
>     cwnd_avg = sqrt(3/2p)

This assumes that "p" is a uniform probability; that the likelihood that one packet is marked is independent of whether its neighbours are marked.  A mechanism that refers specifically to marking consecutive packets breaks that assumption.

Reno's actual behaviour depends more accurately on the relationship between the interval between RTTs containing at least one mark, and the actual RTT.

 - Jonathan Morton