Re: Deprecating ICMP Source Quench messages

Fernando Gont <fernando@gont.com.ar> Wed, 01 December 2010 19:03 UTC

Return-Path: <fernando.gont.netbook.win@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: tsvwg@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: tsvwg@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9903F3A6C20 for <tsvwg@core3.amsl.com>; Wed, 1 Dec 2010 11:03:12 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.022
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.022 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.577, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GILiQULCdFvU for <tsvwg@core3.amsl.com>; Wed, 1 Dec 2010 11:03:11 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-gw0-f66.google.com (mail-gw0-f66.google.com [74.125.83.66]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AA4E3A6C8A for <tsvwg@ietf.org>; Wed, 1 Dec 2010 11:03:11 -0800 (PST)
Received: by gwj18 with SMTP id 18so4675706gwj.1 for <tsvwg@ietf.org>; Wed, 01 Dec 2010 11:04:25 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:sender:message-id:date:from :user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to :x-enigmail-version:openpgp:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=vQkI8+7gO96FhDszl3GDJ3yon8PfVGs7wz2bA9WsUXM=; b=CnshWm8ejRJYj9fWHoMLJYi/05CqvllxmL2M+ao4xAqtbdPO0FeTBXKxGmA2VnJKPc w1PSSPuJDdI7Hs6RYXpta7Eh4aRAO0yV6cwKmuw9qx6jPF0y5KDF1Y4iGDiCSR+UnIoZ O1yliqrO7WEXLH5mn3tdxZ8LCuwVnlpta7rpk=
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=sender:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:x-enigmail-version:openpgp:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=UjFvyqlBh6WQsVY5KeKgH93mQIhYGglr8SIRbxdsvqo1Fng4wt4aPdyc9YUHhM3pVU rGuRn8dVLtP4FsXzp3aWAgxS2eiL6tl8VH25wFnbRGUzXzOpyioCD+BH2/Nxz/oeN7dN KqebBdSooO5eueMimB9Stnr1B6JWaxHfh4h2g=
Received: by 10.151.109.13 with SMTP id l13mr10302278ybm.17.1291230264865; Wed, 01 Dec 2010 11:04:24 -0800 (PST)
Received: from [192.168.2.6] (92-129-17-190.fibertel.com.ar [190.17.129.92]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id v9sm1869934ybe.21.2010.12.01.11.04.20 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Wed, 01 Dec 2010 11:04:23 -0800 (PST)
Sender: Fernando Gont <fernando.gont.netbook.win@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4CF69C31.2080901@gont.com.ar>
Date: Wed, 01 Dec 2010 16:04:17 -0300
From: Fernando Gont <fernando@gont.com.ar>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.0; en-US; rv:1.9.2.8) Gecko/20100802 Thunderbird/3.1.2
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Fred Baker <fred@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: Deprecating ICMP Source Quench messages
References: <4CF0454A.8070008@gont.com.ar> <91763C5F-197E-4643-9568-895814978D72@cisco.com>
In-Reply-To: <91763C5F-197E-4643-9568-895814978D72@cisco.com>
X-Enigmail-Version: 1.1.1
OpenPGP: id=D076FFF1
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Cc: tsvwg <tsvwg@ietf.org>
X-BeenThere: tsvwg@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: Transport Area Working Group <tsvwg.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tsvwg>, <mailto:tsvwg-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/tsvwg>
List-Post: <mailto:tsvwg@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:tsvwg-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tsvwg>, <mailto:tsvwg-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Dec 2010 19:03:12 -0000

Hi, Fred,

>> At the tsvwg wg meeting @ Beijing I presented the I-D 
>> draft-gont-tsvwg-source-quench-00, which aims at deprecating ICMP
>> Source Quench messages.
> 
> You may be interested to scan RFC 1812 for comments on Source Quench.
> While RFCs 1122/1123 require a host to do something intelligent with
> them should they arrive, routers are not supposed to send them.

Exactly. -- that's part of the motivation for this document, indeed: you
should not be receiving legitimate ICMP SQs, anyway!


> DISCUSSION Research seems to suggest that Source Quench consumes
> network bandwidth but is an ineffective (and unfair) antidote to 
> congestion.  See, for example, [INTERNET:9] and [INTERNET:10]. 
> Section [5.3.6] discusses the current thinking on how routers ought
> to deal with overload and network congestion.
> 
> A router MAY ignore any ICMP Source Quench messages it receives.

Ok. So it looks like this "MAY" should be updated to a "SHOULD NOT",
such that it's in the same line as the requirements for hosts in
draft-gont-tsvwg-source-quench-00.

Thoughts?


> INTERNET:11. Prue, W., and J. Postel, "The Source Quench Introduced
> Delay (SQuID)", RFC 1016, USC/Information Sciences Institute, August 
> 1987.

Should we take the chance to move this one to Historic?

Thanks!

Kind regards,
-- 
Fernando Gont
e-mail: fernando@gont.com.ar || fgont@acm.org
PGP Fingerprint: 7809 84F5 322E 45C7 F1C9 3945 96EE A9EF D076 FFF1