Re: [tsvwg] A word for "does not have a significantly negative impact on traffic using standard congestion control"?

Lloyd W <lloyd.wood@yahoo.co.uk> Thu, 18 March 2021 21:46 UTC

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From: Lloyd W <lloyd.wood@yahoo.co.uk>
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Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2021 08:45:48 +1100
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Cc: Neal Cardwell <ncardwell@google.com>, tsvwg IETF list <tsvwg@ietf.org>
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To: Bob Briscoe <ietf@bobbriscoe.net>
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Subject: Re: [tsvwg] A word for "does not have a significantly negative impact on traffic using standard congestion control"?
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What does 'well-behaved' mean in a congestion control context? 
(Hmmm, 3con there for that)

We could write something updatable by later RFCs defining what well-behaved means, describing how it means no significant negative impact, allows
coexistence with Reno and TCP Friendly flows, and we're done. Nuance can be
in the RFC.

Testing has shown that our experimental protocol's performance under
congestion is well-behaved, matching the definition of well-behaved in RFCxxxx

I don't think we should hang Reno or TCP around our necks in the term. (Reno is an
example implementation of TCP, and imo even more specific and not transport
 agnostic)

Lloyd Wood
lloyd.wood@yahoo.co.uk

> On 10 Mar 2021, at 10:19, Bob Briscoe <ietf@bobbriscoe.net> wrote:
> 
>  Neal,
> 
> On 09/03/2021 02:35, Neal Cardwell wrote:
>>> On Mon, Mar 8, 2021, 8:19 PM Bob Briscoe <ietf@bobbriscoe.net> wrote:
>>>> tsvwg-ers,
>>>> 
>>>> In the survey of the L4S Prague Requirements, we got quite significant push-back from developers about our two requirements to fall back to Reno-Friendly (which the draft defines as a translation of 'TCP-Friendly' into transport-agnostic language, 'cos TCP isn't the only transport these days).
>>>> 
>>>> Basically, people don't want to have to fall back to something as lame a Reno (apologies if that's disparaging, but I'm just the messenger).
>>>> 
>>>> I was hoping people would interpret 'Reno-Friendly' liberally. But everyone takes Reno-Friendly to mean quite close to Reno behaviour - not surprising really, given the definition of TCP-Friendly in TFRC is roughly within 2x of Reno [RFC5348] (pasted at the end).
>>>> 
>>>> What I'm looking for is a word that means "does not have a significantly negative impact on traffic using standard congestion control", which 
>>>> RFC5033 allows for experimental congestion controls.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Reno-considerate?
>>> 
>>> Reno-accommodating?
>> 
>> This one is getting closer.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Bob
>> 
>> 
>> neal
>> 
> 
> -- 
> ________________________________________________________________
> Bob Briscoe                               http://bobbriscoe.net/