[tsvwg] Follow-up to your DSCP and ECN codepoint comments at tsvwg interim
Bob Briscoe <ietf@bobbriscoe.net> Sat, 07 March 2020 00:34 UTC
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From: Bob Briscoe <ietf@bobbriscoe.net>
To: Steven Blake <slblake@petri-meat.com>
Cc: tsvwg IETF list <tsvwg@ietf.org>
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Date: Sat, 07 Mar 2020 00:34:22 +0000
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Subject: [tsvwg] Follow-up to your DSCP and ECN codepoint comments at tsvwg interim
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Steve, I had audio problems during the chairs slides at the tsvwg interim. https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2020-tsvwg-01/session/tsvwg Now I see the following two comments of yours in the minutes, I'd like to follow-up: > - Steve Blake mentioned that L4S could be made compatible with each. Can you say more about what's behind this idea? or point me to where you've already said it? > - Steve Blake noted anyone running these experiments will tinker with > boxes, so may handle the DSCP bleaching concern. Unfortunately, that's only partially true. It's fairly true for CDN->user applications. However, for (say) conversational video or online gaming, AR, VR, etc, which are particularly important targets apps, the path is often either accessISP-accessISP or accessISP-cloud-accessISP. Altho most access ISPs nowadays are pretty tightly meshed with other access ISPs (with less intermediaries than there used to be), there are still significant numbers of cases where two access ISPs are not directly connected. Anyway, if user B's downstream is the bottleneck for user A, even if ISP B doesn't bleach Diffserv, the DSCP is still no use if ISP A bleaches, or if an intermediary does. See https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-tsvwg-ecn-l4s-id-09#appendix-B.2 for write-up of the pros and cons. Network traversal is already a difficult problem, even with just a very few ECN problems. We really don't want to make this impossible. With a 3-part (sender-bottleneck-receiver) L4S deployment, there is already enough deployment barrier without adding Diffserv traversal to make 4 or more parts (sender-border-bottleneck-receiver). For SCE, there's already 4-parts to deploy (tunnels added), so let's not countenance making that 5 or more. Bob -- ________________________________________________________________ Bob Briscoe http://bobbriscoe.net/
- [tsvwg] Follow-up to your DSCP and ECN codepoint … Bob Briscoe
- Re: [tsvwg] Follow-up to your DSCP and ECN codepo… Sebastian Moeller
- Re: [tsvwg] Follow-up to your DSCP and ECN codepo… Jonathan Morton
- Re: [tsvwg] Follow-up to your DSCP and ECN codepo… Bob Briscoe
- Re: [tsvwg] Follow-up to your DSCP and ECN codepo… Bob Briscoe
- Re: [tsvwg] Follow-up to your DSCP and ECN codepo… Bob Briscoe
- Re: [tsvwg] Follow-up to your DSCP and ECN codepo… Sebastian Moeller
- Re: [tsvwg] Follow-up to your DSCP and ECN codepo… Bob Briscoe
- Re: [tsvwg] Follow-up to your DSCP and ECN codepo… Sebastian Moeller
- Re: [tsvwg] Follow-up to your DSCP and ECN codepo… Sebastian Moeller
- Re: [tsvwg] Follow-up to your DSCP and ECN codepo… Wesley Eddy
- Re: [tsvwg] Follow-up to your DSCP and ECN codepo… Sebastian Moeller
- Re: [tsvwg] Follow-up to your DSCP and ECN codepo… Lars Eggert
- Re: [tsvwg] Follow-up to your DSCP and ECN codepo… Gorry Fairhurst
- Re: [tsvwg] Follow-up to your DSCP and ECN codepo… Jonathan Morton
- Re: [tsvwg] Follow-up to your DSCP and ECN codepo… Jonathan Morton
- Re: [tsvwg] Follow-up to your DSCP and ECN codepo… alex.burr@ealdwulf.org.uk
- Re: [tsvwg] Follow-up to your DSCP and ECN codepo… Bob Briscoe
- Re: [tsvwg] Follow-up to your DSCP and ECN codepo… Bob Briscoe
- Re: [tsvwg] Follow-up to your DSCP and ECN codepo… Bob Briscoe
- Re: [tsvwg] Follow-up to your DSCP and ECN codepo… Sebastian Moeller
- Re: [tsvwg] Follow-up to your DSCP and ECN codepo… Jonathan Morton