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Re: [tsvwg] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-livingood-low-latency-deployment-01#NewThinking

"Livingood, Jason" <Jason_Livingood@comcast.com> Mon, 20 March 2023 15:29 UTC

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From: "Livingood, Jason" <Jason_Livingood@comcast.com>
To: Sebastian Moeller <moeller0@gmx.de>, tsvwg IETF list <tsvwg@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [tsvwg] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-livingood-low-latency-deployment-01#NewThinking
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tsvwg/A2LktnsmNo8uXOdb6K6FXhUFlYw>
Subject: Re: [tsvwg] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-livingood-low-latency-deployment-01#NewThinking
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Hi Sebastian (offlist) - I will factor this feedback into the next version of the document. Some other notes below.

Jason

On 3/19/23, 06:10, "tsvwg on behalf of Sebastian Moeller" <tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of moeller0@gmx.de <mailto:moeller0@gmx.de>> wrote:

[SM] The Introduction says "Furthermore, unlike with bandwidth priority on a highly/fully utilized link, low latency using these new approaches is not a zero sum game - everyone can potentially have lower latency at no one else's expense." <snip> This seems to misrepresent the mechanism L4S is build on, the dualQ coupled AQM, in a sense the reference L4S AQM, is described as a "conditional priority scheduler" and configure to have a rate share for the non-LL:LL-queue in the 1:10 (current Linux implementation IIRC) to 1:16 (rfc9332).

[JL] I'm not focusing on the current OS implementation to which you refer - I am addressing how it is implemented in an ISP network, such as in a CMTS. Feel free to debate OS implementation with the devs of those operating systems or perhaps the authors of the main L4S and NQB documents. ;-) I will ponder a re-wording that does not say zero-sum game. 

[SM] "L4S does *not* provide low latency in the same way as previous technologies like DiffServ (QoS). That prior QoS approach used packet prioritization, where it was possible to assign a higher relative priority to certain application traffic, such as Voice over IP (VoIP) telephony." Again, given the right conditions, L4S will do exactly what is claimed here it would do not, e.g. when a short RTT L4S flow shares a link with a long RTT conventional-TCP flow.

[JL] I'll consider a re-wording but I am trying to contrast this with layer-3 network prioritization, where IMO this clearly differs. I know you likely disagree and I am not sure either of us will ever convince the other, but appreciate your view nonetheless. 

[SM] Nitpick: yield instead of yeild

[JL] Good catch - thx

Jason

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