Re: [tsvwg] a new method of congestion control

Mitchell Erblich <erblichs@earthlink.net> Mon, 05 June 2023 04:14 UTC

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From: Mitchell Erblich <erblichs@earthlink.net>
In-Reply-To: <16922F7E-EED2-4298-98EC-AA7784A0D4AD@strayalpha.com>
Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2023 21:14:10 -0700
Cc: Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com>, tsvwg IETF list <tsvwg@ietf.org>
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References: <CAA93jw6TJEciW8QhgbSe=0ZTk6njhpxMTQ3ETxzy73hhcP0yAw@mail.gmail.com> <C21F06B7-79DE-4726-9DD7-D91BF9DB9AC5@earthlink.net> <16922F7E-EED2-4298-98EC-AA7784A0D4AD@strayalpha.com>
To: touch@strayalpha.com
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tsvwg/AC-0wxhTr3Qk9NbAGZuvCd_jwTQ>
Subject: Re: [tsvwg] a new method of congestion control
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Joe,

	One would need to duplicate Appropriate Byte Counting (ABC) by Allman / Pacing in Ethernet, but why would you want to when you already had it within a experimental CA in TCP?

	If you flood packets and a intermediate system (router) did a tail-drop or a random-early drop, you still drop packets.

	If you have out-of-orderness that jumps because… then you drop packets

	If you fragment and drop a fraction of the packet you drop…
	
	If you re-route because of the change of the routing table and you re-order, you drop,,,,

	Yes,we have selective asks…. But not in Ethernet or IPvX.

	Ethernet supports two sizes of IP (IPv4 and IPv6) … do you do something special for a fraction of the packets in your network?

	You need to have 1 hop networks … Again ,,, weird…

	Can’t guarantee no drop of packets… Yes, you can mitigate if and if  and if… but is’t it just worth to use Selective Acks and other existing RFCs 

	Why create a wheel when it already exists???


Group,,, Sorry, about the verbose response….

Mitchell Erblich
erblichs@earthlink.net



> On Jun 4, 2023, at 8:15 PM, touch@strayalpha.com wrote:
> 
> Ethernet has a LOT of extensions:
> 
> IEEE 802.1
> en.wikipedia.org
> <wikipedia.png>
> 
> Could this either be some subset of newer extensions or revival/vendor-specific variants of past attempts?
> 
> Joe
> 
> —
> Dr. Joe Touch, temporal epistemologist
> www.strayalpha.com
> 
>> On Jun 4, 2023, at 7:50 PM, Mitchell Erblich <erblichs@earthlink.net> wrote:
>> 
>> Weird, In my Opinion (IMO),
>> 
>> 	How do you separate out AI versus non-AI flows, so you can tailer one type network flow to AI aware applications?
>> 
>> 	Is AI consuming even 20% of network bandwidth at this time?
>> 
>> 	Isn’t Apple’s ?Siri? an AI application approaching 10 years of age, which I find far from perfect.
>> 
>> 	It is like having a different Ethernet protocol for UDP versus TCP.
>> 
>> 	The article must be missing critical information or the writer doesn’t understand TCP and/or CA.
>> 
>> Mitchell Erblich
>> erblichs@earthlink.net
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jun 4, 2023, at 5:53 PM, Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> announced by nvidia here:
>>> https://www.zdnet.com/article/nvidia-unveils-new-kind-of-ethernet-for-ai-grace-hopper-superchip-in-full-production/
>>> 
>>> I have no idea what an AI workload looks like, familiarity with a ton
>>> of DC l2 protocols, and there are hints in this post about telemetry.
>>> 
>>> Anyone have clue here?
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Podcast: https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7058793910227111937/
>>> Dave Täht CSO, LibreQos
>>> 
>> 
>

[tsvwg] a new method of congestion control Dave Taht
Re: [tsvwg] a new method of congestion control Mitchell Erblich
Re: [tsvwg] a new method of congestion control touch@strayalpha.com
Re: [tsvwg] a new method of congestion control Mitchell Erblich
Re: [tsvwg] a new method of congestion control Shihang(Vincent)
Re: [tsvwg] a new method of congestion control touch@strayalpha.com
Re: [tsvwg] a new method of congestion control rs.ietf