Re: [tsvwg] New Version of draft-ietf-tsvwg-transport-encrypt (12)
Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com> Mon, 16 March 2020 13:07 UTC
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From: Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2020 06:06:51 -0700
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To: Gorry Fairhurst <gorry@erg.abdn.ac.uk>
Cc: Martin Duke <martin.h.duke@gmail.com>, David Schinazi <dschinazi.ietf@gmail.com>, "tsvwg@ietf.org" <tsvwg@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [tsvwg] New Version of draft-ietf-tsvwg-transport-encrypt (12)
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On Mon, Mar 16, 2020 at 2:36 AM Gorry Fairhurst <gorry@erg.abdn.ac.uk> wrote: > Ekr, > On 15/03/2020 13:19, Eric Rescorla wrote: > > Let me try to expand my point a bit. > > Longstanding practice is for entities in the middle of the network to > use signals that were intended for the endpoint for their own > purposes. With QUIC (and a lesser extent SCTP/DTLS), those signals > are being encrypted and thus unavailable to those non-endpoint > entities; this draft is mostly devoted to documenting the negative > impact of that change on the operations of those entities. > > I disagree that this is "documenting the negative impact of that change". > > The draft is about how this protocol information has and is being used. As > long as I can remember, there has been devices that utilise some of this > information, at the edge of an enterprise there is often at least one > device with this role; within a managed network there are devices; etc. If > the trend to use encrypted methods continues, some of these practices need > to be re-assessed, and the functions more widely understood than in an era > when nearly everything was thought to be TCP or "multimedia". > I'm not sure what you're arguing here. What I said above is that this draft was "mostly devoted to documenting the negative impact of that change on the operations of those entities." In other words, it lists a bunch of things that people do now that will stop working. Do you not think that much of the material in this draft is of that form? -Ekr
- [tsvwg] New Version of draft-ietf-tsvwg-transport… Gorry Fairhurst
- Re: [tsvwg] New Version of draft-ietf-tsvwg-trans… David Schinazi
- Re: [tsvwg] New Version of draft-ietf-tsvwg-trans… Gorry Fairhurst
- Re: [tsvwg] New Version of draft-ietf-tsvwg-trans… Spencer Dawkins at IETF
- Re: [tsvwg] New Version of draft-ietf-tsvwg-trans… Martin Duke
- Re: [tsvwg] New Version of draft-ietf-tsvwg-trans… Spencer Dawkins at IETF
- Re: [tsvwg] New Version of draft-ietf-tsvwg-trans… Joe Touch
- Re: [tsvwg] New Version of draft-ietf-tsvwg-trans… Colin Perkins
- Re: [tsvwg] New Version of draft-ietf-tsvwg-trans… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [tsvwg] New Version of draft-ietf-tsvwg-trans… Martin Duke
- Re: [tsvwg] New Version of draft-ietf-tsvwg-trans… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [tsvwg] New Version of draft-ietf-tsvwg-trans… Martin Duke
- Re: [tsvwg] New Version of draft-ietf-tsvwg-trans… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [tsvwg] New Version of draft-ietf-tsvwg-trans… Gorry Fairhurst
- Re: [tsvwg] New Version of draft-ietf-tsvwg-trans… Gorry Fairhurst
- Re: [tsvwg] New Version of draft-ietf-tsvwg-trans… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [tsvwg] New Version of draft-ietf-tsvwg-trans… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [tsvwg] New Version of draft-ietf-tsvwg-trans… Gorry Fairhurst
- Re: [tsvwg] New Version of draft-ietf-tsvwg-trans… Tom Herbert
- Re: [tsvwg] New Version of draft-ietf-tsvwg-trans… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [tsvwg] New Version of draft-ietf-tsvwg-trans… Gorry Fairhurst
- Re: [tsvwg] New Version of draft-ietf-tsvwg-trans… Gorry Fairhurst
- Re: [tsvwg] New Version of draft-ietf-tsvwg-trans… Tom Herbert
- Re: [tsvwg] New Version of draft-ietf-tsvwg-trans… Gorry Fairhurst
- Re: [tsvwg] New Version of draft-ietf-tsvwg-trans… Tom Herbert
- Re: [tsvwg] New Version of draft-ietf-tsvwg-trans… Gorry Fairhurst
- Re: [tsvwg] New Version of draft-ietf-tsvwg-trans… Tom Herbert
- Re: [tsvwg] New Version of draft-ietf-tsvwg-trans… Black, David
- Re: [tsvwg] New Version of draft-ietf-tsvwg-trans… Tom Herbert
- Re: [tsvwg] New Version of draft-ietf-tsvwg-trans… Black, David