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cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.2.1258.28; Mon, 18 Mar 2024 11:56:05 +0800 Received: from kwepemd100007.china.huawei.com ([7.221.188.221]) by kwepemd100007.china.huawei.com ([7.221.188.221]) with mapi id 15.02.1258.028; Mon, 18 Mar 2024 11:56:05 +0800 From: "Shihang(Vincent)" To: Kaippallimalil John , Dan Wing , tsvwg IETF list CC: "draft-kaippallimalil-tsvwg-media-hdr-wireless@ietf.org" , "draft-rwbr-tsvwg-signaling-use-cases@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: host-to-network signaling requirements Thread-Index: AQHaeDLznMFwlRBHPEuFSSzSt6qDyrE83b9g Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2024 03:56:05 +0000 Message-ID: <804194ebfcc24642a89a97118ec10d97@huawei.com> References: <9B0C7A76-5620-4630-B68E-44D4CCC9E1FD@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.126.201.52] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_804194ebfcc24642a89a97118ec10d97huaweicom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [tsvwg] host-to-network signaling requirements X-BeenThere: tsvwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.39 Precedence: list List-Id: Transport Area Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2024 03:56:15 -0000 --_000_804194ebfcc24642a89a97118ec10d97huaweicom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 QWdyZWUuIFdoYXQgbWV0YWRhdGEgaXMgbmVlZGVkIGlzIG9ydGhvZ29uYWwgdG8gaG93IHRoZXNl IG1ldGFkYXRhIGlzIHNpZ25hbGVkLiBUaGUgbGF0dGVyIGRlcGVuZHMgb24gZGVwbG95bWVudC9w cm90b2NvbCB1c2VkIGV0Yy4gV2Ugc2hvdWxkIGRldmVsb3AgYSBjb21tb24gcmVxdWlyZW1lbnQg Zm9yIG1ldGFkYXRhIHNpZ25hbGluZyBzdWNoIGFzIHByb3RlY3RpbmcgcHJpdmFjeSwgYXV0aGVu dGljYXRlZCBldGMuDQoNClRoYW5rcywNCkhhbmcNCg0KRnJvbTogdHN2d2cgPHRzdndnLWJvdW5j ZXNAaWV0Zi5vcmc+IE9uIEJlaGFsZiBPZiBLYWlwcGFsbGltYWxpbCBKb2huDQpTZW50OiAyMDI0 xOoz1MIxN8jVIDE2OjE3DQpUbzogRGFuIFdpbmcgPGRhbndpbmdAZ21haWwuY29tPjsgdHN2d2cg 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Agree. What metadata is needed is orthogonal to how th= ese metadata is signaled. The latter depends on deployment/protocol used et= c. We should develop a common requirement for metadata signaling such as protecting privacy, authenticated etc.=

 

Thanks,

Hang

 

From: tsvwg <tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Kaippallimalil John
Sent: 2024=C4=EA3= =D4=C217=C8=D5 16:17
To: Dan Wing <danwing@gmail.com>; tsvwg IETF list <tsvwg@ie= tf.org>
Cc: draft-kaippallimalil-tsvwg-media-hdr-wireless@ietf.org; draft-rw= br-tsvwg-signaling-use-cases@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [tsvwg] host-to-network signaling requirements

 

Agree, these are different use = cases and assumptions (reactive vs proactive, per-packet-QoS vs. events, = =A1=AD).

 

Should keep the metadata in eac= h of these drafts separate.

Lets get agreement on the metad= ata in each of these first, and then think of the channels (transport ?) af= ter that.

 

BR,

John

 

 

From: Dan Wing <danwing@gmail= .com>
Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2024 10:25 PM
To: tsvwg IETF list <tsvwg@ietf= .org>
Cc: draft-kaippallimalil-tsvwg-media-hdr-wireless@ietf.org; draft-rwbr-tsvwg-signaling-use-cases@ietf.org
Subject: host-to-network signaling requirements

 

I like the update to draft-kaip= pallimalil-tsvwg-media-hdr-wireless-04 which discusses requirements. For my= use-case, however, the ISP won't have a relationship with the server (cont= ent provider, if you will) because the server is an on-premise datacenter belonging to an enterprise or other bus= iness, rather than to a consumer-focused video streaming platform. This mea= ns the ISP won't accept draft-kaippallimalil-tsvwg-media-hdr-wireless metad= ata from any sender, because otherwise such metadata would be misused or abused, wreaking havoc with legitimate f= lows that should receive better service. At minimum, my use-case needs a me= chanism to authorize honoring per-packet metadata from certain sending IP a= ddresses, but once there is a way to signal those IP addresses, we could signal other metadata on a per-flow= basis.  Some of this out-of-band host-to-network signaling would redu= ce the per-packet signaling proposed in draft-kaippallimalil-tsvwg-media-hd= r-wireless; some would just assist with the per-packet signaling.

 

The gist of the idea is the rec= eiver -- the user -- choses which incoming packets are treated differently = by the network when a reactive policy event occurs (read: sudden congestion= , packet loss to the receiver, etc.).

 

This can provide immediate bene= fit to SRTP and RTP flows and media over QUIC (MoQ) as MoQ moves towards un= reliable datagrams.  It also benefits other UDP-based protocols such a= s gaming.

 

We wrote https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-rwbr-tsvwg-signaling-use-cases/ = which explains the benefits of such a host to network signaling protocol an= d have been updating it this week at https://= danwing.github.io/signaling-use-cases/draft-rwbr-tsvwg-signaling-use-cases.= html (which will update the existing -01 on Monday).  Such a host-to-network sign= aling can also improve interoperability and provide version negotiation whe= n there is a business relationship between the ISP and content provider, as= proposed in draft-kaippallimalil-tsvwg-media-hdr-wireless-04.  As many signaling approaches are being considered, and for the sake = of better interop, it would be beneficial to separate the definition of the= metadata vs. channels used to share them.

 

Mohamed Boucadair present draft= -rwbr-tsvwg-signaling-use-cases at Tuesday's TSVWG meeting.

 

-d

 

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