Re: [tsvwg] New Liaison Statement, "LS to IETF TSVWG on MP-DCCP"

stephen.h.johnson@bt.com Fri, 16 July 2021 09:10 UTC

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From: <stephen.h.johnson@bt.com>
To: <tsvwg@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [tsvwg] New Liaison Statement, "LS to IETF TSVWG on MP-DCCP"
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tsvwg/SYgXKdCxzFzsrSe-uCtM28SMPtk>
Subject: Re: [tsvwg] New Liaison Statement, "LS to IETF TSVWG on MP-DCCP"
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Hi Andreas, Markus, all,

BT sees MP-DCCP as a good option for future Hybrid Access solutions that support non-TCP traffic, and especially for latency sensitive and unreliable flows. An aspect of MP-DCCP that is of particular interest is that it offers a lightweight mechanism for multipath traffic delivery which we believe is important in terms of reducing resource requirements (and improving energy efficiency) for mobile devices, CPE and network infrastructure.

Kind Regards,
Stephen

> -----Original Message-----
> From: tsvwg <tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Andreas Kassler
> Sent: Tuesday, 13 July 2021 14:33
> To: tsvwg@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [tsvwg] New Liaison Statement, "LS to IETF TSVWG on MP-
> DCCP"
> 
> Hi Veselein, Markus, all,
> 
> at Karlstad University we have two testbeds based on the open-source
> version of MP-DCCP from
> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmulti
> path-
> dccp.org%2F&amp;data=04%7C01%7Cstephen.h.johnson%40bt.com%7Ceb3
> 27a3c585b40de3c0508d94602df9a%7Ca7f356889c004d5eba4129f146377ab0%
> 7C0%7C0%7C637617801620407922%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoi
> MC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C300
> 0&amp;sdata=RNJ3hwkDh75im4mIDGVa5M8Jpge7xr5PFEPl1KAKlHI%3D&am
> p;reserved=0. One is based on the kernel space version and we also re-
> implemented MP-DCCP in user space under Mininet which allows us for rapid
> prototyping of new schedulers and reordering mechanisms. Using these two
> testbeds, we implemented a new packet scheduler "Adaptive Cheapest Path
> First", which removes some problems with strict priority scheduling (CPF)
> when using it with congestion controlled tunnels. More information is
> available in our upcoming ANRW paper "Adaptive Cheapest Path First
> Scheduling in a Transport-Layer Multi-Path Tunnel Context".
> A preprint is available at
> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Farxiv.
> org%2Fabs%2F2106.16003&amp;data=04%7C01%7Cstephen.h.johnson%40bt
> .com%7Ceb327a3c585b40de3c0508d94602df9a%7Ca7f356889c004d5eba4129f
> 146377ab0%7C0%7C0%7C637617801620407922%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb
> 3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0
> %3D%7C3000&amp;sdata=WAPx%2B1ehSRmI692OdAQMQK53mmHlBlpWBo
> nVdIpSt5I%3D&amp;reserved=0
> 
> We also have initial results for both switching versus splitting for mobile
> scenarios.
> 
> with regards
> 
> Andreas
> 
> 
> > On 2 Jul 2021, at 14:24, Rakocevic, Veselin
> <Veselin.Rakocevic.1@city.ac.uk> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi Markus, all
> >
> > At City, University of London we have a testbed based on the open-source
> MP-DCCP code from
> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmulti
> path-
> dccp.org%2F&amp;data=04%7C01%7Cstephen.h.johnson%40bt.com%7Ceb3
> 27a3c585b40de3c0508d94602df9a%7Ca7f356889c004d5eba4129f146377ab0%
> 7C0%7C0%7C637617801620407922%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoi
> MC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C300
> 0&amp;sdata=RNJ3hwkDh75im4mIDGVa5M8Jpge7xr5PFEPl1KAKlHI%3D&am
> p;reserved=0. We also use Google Pixel phones running the MP-DCCP
> framework and run tests with real applications, both WebRTC-based and file
> downloads, over commercial networks, testing the performance of MP-DCCP
> in different switching and steering scenarios. In future we plan to extend this
> towards the splitting scenario. We already published some academic papers
> with results and will continue our work on this.
> >
> > While the steering and switching already delivers promising results, the
> splitting seems to have some implementation issues. We are looking forward
> to the next revision of the open-source software.
> >
> > with regards
> >
> > Veselin
> >
> > --
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: tsvwg <tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of
> > Markus.Amend@telekom.de <Markus.Amend@telekom.de>
> > Sent: 28 June 2021 17:35
> > To: anna.brunstrom@kau.se <anna.brunstrom@kau.se>se>;
> > jholland=40akamai.com@dmarc.ietf.org
> > <jholland=40akamai.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
> > Cc: tsvwg@ietf.org <tsvwg@ietf.org>
> > Subject: Re: [tsvwg] New Liaison Statement, "LS to IETF TSVWG on MP-
> DCCP"
> >
> > CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organisation. Do not
> click links or open attachments unless you recognise the sender and believe
> the content to be safe.
> >
> >
> > Hi Anna, all,
> >
> > Thanks for raising this important point, why DCCP is a good choice for
> multipath support especially for non-TCP traffic.
> >
> > I wonder if there are already testbed installation available which prove and
> verify MP-DCCP to be lightweight, as well as efficient due to access to path
> characteristic information (available bandwidth, RTT, ...)? Moreover, are
> there use cases in which you like to explore MP-DCCP?
> >
> > For Deutsche Telekom I can reveal, that we have three testbed
> implementation using the open source Linux reference implementation from
> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmulti
> path-
> dccp.org%2F&amp;data=04%7C01%7Cstephen.h.johnson%40bt.com%7Ceb3
> 27a3c585b40de3c0508d94602df9a%7Ca7f356889c004d5eba4129f146377ab0%
> 7C0%7C0%7C637617801620407922%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoi
> MC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C300
> 0&amp;sdata=RNJ3hwkDh75im4mIDGVa5M8Jpge7xr5PFEPl1KAKlHI%3D&am
> p;reserved=0. These testbeds are setup for PoC and trial activities with real
> devices and customers.
> >
> > 1. Provide Multipath in enterprise environment, converging Wi-Fi and 5G
> access.
> > Autonomous Guided Vehicles (AGV) is a first use case in this scenario,
> > which verifies the resilience provided by MP-DCCP in a real industry
> > environment. Integrated in the AGV and a MP-DCCP Proxy attached to a
> > converged Wi-Fi6 and 5G SA core, builds the foundation of the testbed
> > which is ready to be used in real customer PoCs. See also
> >
> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww
> .
> > telekom.com%2Fen%2Fcompany%2Fdetails%2Fdeutsche-telekom-
> demonstrates-m
> > ultipath-for-fixed-mobile-convergence-on-campus-
> 625838&amp;data=04%7C0
> >
> 1%7Cstephen.h.johnson%40bt.com%7Ceb327a3c585b40de3c0508d94602df9
> a%7Ca7
> >
> f356889c004d5eba4129f146377ab0%7C0%7C0%7C637617801620407922%7CU
> nknown%
> >
> 7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haW
> wiLCJX
> >
> VCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&amp;sdata=F7YsNS9bDzcYQ0O3IiPiqdrzqJ1fX3CqDbF
> QCdCkZS
> > s%3D&amp;reserved=0
> >
> > 2. Integrated in Google Pixel 4 devices as part of the OS (and controlled by
> the Android Network Manager) to verify its applicability towards 3GPP
> ATSSS. In this scenario, the MP-DCCP proxy is hosted in the public Internet
> and enables multipath transport between the phone and ANY Internet
> service. A video demonstrating this with a real Skype call can be found on the
> start page of
> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmulti
> path-
> dccp.org%2F&amp;data=04%7C01%7Cstephen.h.johnson%40bt.com%7Ceb3
> 27a3c585b40de3c0508d94602df9a%7Ca7f356889c004d5eba4129f146377ab0%
> 7C0%7C0%7C637617801620407922%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoi
> MC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C300
> 0&amp;sdata=RNJ3hwkDh75im4mIDGVa5M8Jpge7xr5PFEPl1KAKlHI%3D&am
> p;reserved=0. For the purpose of ATSSS, the GSMA ZTC taskforce identified
> MP-DCCP to be a solution, to close the open gap towards UDP support and
> therefore triggered the
> LShttps://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdat
> atracker.ietf.org%2Fliaison%2F1741%2F&amp;data=04%7C01%7Cstephen.h.j
> ohnson%40bt.com%7Ceb327a3c585b40de3c0508d94602df9a%7Ca7f356889c0
> 04d5eba4129f146377ab0%7C0%7C0%7C637617801620407922%7CUnknown%
> 7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haW
> wiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&amp;sdata=Fdre%2FttRfG1Ka8bDVFeyPTOqP
> PxJC7kzoJW0BoYkK10%3D&amp;reserved=0 towards TSVWG. DT provides all
> the members in the ZTC round access to their MP-DCCP testbed.
> >
> > 3. As part of internal residential gateway prototypes, MP-DCCP allows us to
> investigate its Hybrid Access capabilities according to BBF TR-470 on Wireless
> Wireline Convergence.
> >
> > To all: I'm highly interested in your experience on MP-DCCP, details about
> existing testbeds and your potential plans with MP-DCCP. Please feel free to
> share your insights here...
> >
> > Br
> >
> > Markus
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Anna Brunström <anna.brunstrom@kau.se>
> > > Sent: Mittwoch, 23. Juni 2021 17:25
> > > To: Holland, Jake <jholland=40akamai.com@dmarc.ietf.org>rg>; Amend,
> > > Markus <Markus.Amend@telekom.de>
> > > Cc: tsvwg@ietf.org
> > > Subject: RE: [tsvwg] New Liaison Statement, "LS to IETF TSVWG on MP-
> DCCP"
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: tsvwg <mailto:tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Holland,
> > > > Jake
> > > > Sent: den 18 juni 2021 17:23
> > > > To: mailto:Markus.Amend@telekom.de;
> > > > mailto:jholland=40akamai.com@dmarc.ietf.org;
> > > > mailto:statements@ietf.org; mailto:david.black@dell.com;
> > > > mailto:gorry@erg.abdn.ac.uk; mailto:wes@mti-systems.com
> > > > Cc: mailto:GSMALiaisons@gsma.com; mailto:tsvwg@ietf.org
> > > > Subject: Re: [tsvwg] New Liaison Statement, "LS to IETF TSVWG on MP-
> DCCP"
> > > >
> > > > Hi Markus,
> > > >
> > > > Thanks.  I think those diagrams are helpful.
> > > > https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2F
> > > > multipath-
> dccp.org%2Fintro.html&amp;data=04%7C01%7Cstephen.h.johns
> > > >
> on%40bt.com%7Ceb327a3c585b40de3c0508d94602df9a%7Ca7f356889c004d5
> eb
> > > >
> a4129f146377ab0%7C0%7C0%7C637617801620417884%7CUnknown%7CTWFp
> bGZsb
> > > >
> 3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0
> > > >
> %3D%7C3000&amp;sdata=VOpMaZ4SCMwpgLV4g2ix7EoSj7T%2F4zTCllkoycB
> 25%2
> > > > BE%3D&amp;reserved=0 It looks like the idea is to wrap generic UDP
> > > > traffic in a multipath-capable tunnel at the OS level.
> > > >
> > > > That makes sense, and it looks like maybe ease of implementation
> > > > on the client devices is among the reasons to prefer it to other
> > > > kinds of tunnels, if I'm understanding it.  That seems like a fine
> > > > reason.  Thanks for clearing that up.
> > >
> > > I think you are correct here Jake, that MP-DCCP is quite light weight is a
> benefit.
> > > You also have the congestion control state, with RTT estimates etc.,
> > > that can be used as input for scheduling and path management. This
> > > of course is a main benefit shared with other transport layer solutions.
> > >
> > > Best Regards,
> > > Anna
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Best,
> > > > Jake
> > > >
> > >
> > > När du skickar e-post till Karlstads universitet behandlar vi dina
> > >
> personuppgifter<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https
> %3A%2F%2Fwww.kau.se%2Fgdpr&amp;data=04%7C01%7Cstephen.h.johns
> on%40bt.com%7Ceb327a3c585b40de3c0508d94602df9a%7Ca7f356889c004d5
> eba4129f146377ab0%7C0%7C0%7C637617801620417884%7CUnknown%7CTW
> FpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJX
> VCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&amp;sdata=6DOJPnNEeJja5Tbu5YnJCAArWsUKVMvH
> rNdd21CxnVo%3D&amp;reserved=0>.
> > > When you send an e-mail to Karlstad University, we will process your
> > > personal
> data<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2F
> www.kau.se%2Fen%2Fgdpr&amp;data=04%7C01%7Cstephen.h.johnson%40
> bt.com%7Ceb327a3c585b40de3c0508d94602df9a%7Ca7f356889c004d5eba412
> 9f146377ab0%7C0%7C0%7C637617801620417884%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZ
> sb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6M
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> KnoeCX5dI%3D&amp;reserved=0>.
> 
> Kind regards, Andreas Kassler
> ====================================
> Prof. Dr. Andreas J. Kassler
> Computer Science Department
> Universitetsgatan 2
> SE-65188 Karlstad
> Sweden
> Tel:   ++46 (0)54 700-2168
> Fax:   ++46 (0)54 700-1828
> eMail: andreas.kassler@kau.se
> skype: andreaskassler
> Web:
> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.
> kau.se%2Fforskare%2Fandreas-
> kassler&amp;data=04%7C01%7Cstephen.h.johnson%40bt.com%7Ceb327a3c
> 585b40de3c0508d94602df9a%7Ca7f356889c004d5eba4129f146377ab0%7C0%7
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> LjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&am
> p;sdata=ul0QzuQDhBo3Qdtj797JBDJF3xwlGXigXL%2BIokChVhU%3D&amp;re
> served=0
> 
> När du skickar e-post till Karlstads universitet behandlar vi dina
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> %3A%2F%2Fwww.kau.se%2Fgdpr&amp;data=04%7C01%7Cstephen.h.johns
> on%40bt.com%7Ceb327a3c585b40de3c0508d94602df9a%7Ca7f356889c004d5
> eba4129f146377ab0%7C0%7C0%7C637617801620417884%7CUnknown%7CTW
> FpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJX
> VCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&amp;sdata=6DOJPnNEeJja5Tbu5YnJCAArWsUKVMvH
> rNdd21CxnVo%3D&amp;reserved=0>.
> When you send an e-mail to Karlstad University, we will process your
> personal
> data<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2F
> www.kau.se%2Fen%2Fgdpr&amp;data=04%7C01%7Cstephen.h.johnson%40
> bt.com%7Ceb327a3c585b40de3c0508d94602df9a%7Ca7f356889c004d5eba412
> 9f146377ab0%7C0%7C0%7C637617801620417884%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZ
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> n0%3D%7C3000&amp;sdata=tQnkfkmnf%2BQF7KxzDAAmqvHN8VCMOk4z7x
> KnoeCX5dI%3D&amp;reserved=0>.