Re: [tsvwg] New Version Notification for draft-daiya-tsvwg-udp-options-protocol-number-00.txt

"touch@strayalpha.com" <touch@strayalpha.com> Sun, 23 July 2023 03:30 UTC

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From: "touch@strayalpha.com" <touch@strayalpha.com>
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Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2023 20:30:02 -0700
Cc: Yoshifumi Nishida <nsd.ietf@gmail.com>, Gorry Fairhurst <gorry@erg.abdn.ac.uk>, Daiya Yuyama <daiya=40sfc.wide.ad.jp@dmarc.ietf.org>, tsvwg@ietf.org
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To: Tom Herbert <tom=40herbertland.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [tsvwg] New Version Notification for draft-daiya-tsvwg-udp-options-protocol-number-00.txt
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> On Jul 20, 2023, at 7:35 AM, Tom Herbert <tom=40herbertland.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
> 
> Hi Daiya-san,
> 
> Many people don't want middleboxes meddling with *anything* beyond the
> network layer!
> 
> Besides that I'm not sure this is feasible, it would require
> middleboxes to process trailers which is not amenable to efficient
> implementation for a high performance implementation. Also, this type
> of marking could only be used with UDP and doesn't help with other
> protocols. You might want to look at
> draft-cc-v6ops-wlcg-flow-label-marking, it's a more generic solution
> that would work with any transport protocol.
> 
> Tom

If I understand what Daiya-san is trying to accomplish, this would be a step backwards.

The problem is exemplified by netconf; there are 5 different assignments:
	over SSH
	over BEEP
	over SOAP over HTTPS
	over SOAP over BEEP
	over TLS

The goal is to have a field in a transport header that indicates the next protocol, not the entire rest of the protocol stack, e.g., that would allow “next protocol” headers to continue to be chained through the transport layer. This would be useful for TCP, UDP, and SCTP. I don’t know an equivalent capability is already possible in SCTP, but in TCP it is very similar to the “service name option” draft of mine from years ago.

The new proposed doc adds this to UDP - though, AFACIT, the service name option would work there just as well.

AFAICT the bigger issue is that there’s no way to continue the chain past the transport protocol - other protocols don’t universally include a “next protocol” field.

However, trying to use a field the IP header for this purpose goes in the wrong direction. The point is to create a chain as long as the number of layers of protocol and to put that chain inside the protocol layers, not to pull them all out to the IP layer flow label (which would not chain).

Joe