Re: [tsvwg] path forward on L4S issue #16

Ingemar Johansson S <ingemar.s.johansson@ericsson.com> Tue, 09 June 2020 14:44 UTC

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From: Ingemar Johansson S <ingemar.s.johansson@ericsson.com>
To: Sebastian Moeller <moeller0@gmx.de>
CC: Jonathan Morton <chromatix99@gmail.com>, "tsvwg@ietf.org" <tsvwg@ietf.org>, Ingemar Johansson S <ingemar.s.johansson@ericsson.com>
Thread-Topic: [tsvwg] path forward on L4S issue #16
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Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2020 14:43:55 +0000
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tsvwg/weDA7xPTlt-j6MghUzZkXRa0gqY>
Subject: Re: [tsvwg] path forward on L4S issue #16
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Hi
Why don't you run the testing yourself to get the answers you look for?. 

You can download and build the SCReAM BW test tool (follow the steps below).
I can guarantee that you'll find cases where it does not work In a
satisfactory way. But as with most other congestion control work it is work
in progress, sometimes that progress is good, sometimes not so good due to
other projects that are more important.

/Ingemar
==============================
How to get and build the SCReAM BW test tool on Linux PC's

cd ~/somewhere 
git clone https://github.com/EricssonResearch/scream.git
cd code/bw-test-tool
cmake .
make

What needs to be installed in advance is
git
cmake 
make
gcc (or g++ ?) I install both

Read the SCReAM-BW-test-tool.pptx
==============================

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sebastian Moeller <moeller0@gmx.de>
> Sent: den 9 juni 2020 16:21
> To: Ingemar Johansson S
> <ingemar.s.johansson=40ericsson.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
> Cc: Jonathan Morton <chromatix99@gmail.com>om>; Ingemar Johansson S
> <ingemar.s.johansson@ericsson.com>om>; tsvwg@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [tsvwg] path forward on L4S issue #16
> 
> Ingemar,
> 
> I have a feeling that this discussion thread is based on a disconnect. I
believe
> that most here agree that Scream is a nice and interesting project worth
> pursuing. The only contentious point is whether scream working well with
> current L4S AQM behavior over a single simulated hop, can make up for the
> apparent lack of testing under even mildly adversarial conditions (aka
real
> internet conditions) of the core L4S implementation and design. If you
have
> made such measurements in the context of scream's development, please
> do not hesitate to present them here.
> 
> incomplete listing of mildly adversarial conditions:
> 1) bi-directionally saturating traffic
> 2) asymmetric links
> 3) long networks paths, >>5 hops
> 4) paths with parallel segments
> 5) unfriendly greedy traffic with less than expected yielding behavior ...
> 
> Data demonstrating L4S immunity against negative behaviour under any of
> these conditions, is IMHO quite helpful for the continuing discussion.
> 
> Best Regards
> 	Sebastian
> 
> 
> 
> > On Jun 9, 2020, at 16:11, Ingemar Johansson S
> <ingemar.s.johansson=40ericsson.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
> >
> > Jonathan, you kick in open doors..
> >
> > I urge interested people (if any?) to follow the discussion thread
> > instead to get an understanding what causes the lower throughput with
> L4S.
> > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tsvwg/FFQH_XG0-
> wbLIt7JRJ33dH8Fyf
> > c/
> >
> > /Ingemar
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Jonathan Morton <chromatix99@gmail.com>
> >> Sent: den 9 juni 2020 12:10
> >> To: Ingemar Johansson S <ingemar.s.johansson@ericsson.com>
> >> Cc: tsvwg@ietf.org
> >> Subject: Re: path forward on L4S issue #16
> >>
> >>> On 9 Jun, 2020, at 10:33 am, Ingemar Johansson S
> >> <ingemar.s.johansson@ericsson.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> "Even though it is more than a magnitude difference in queue delay
> >>> between CoDel-ECN and L4S, it is fair to say that these simple
> >>> simulations should of course be seen as just a snapshot."
> >>
> >> Not to mention a magnitude difference in throughput.
> >>
> >> - Jonathan Morton