Re: [tsvwg] Prague requirements survey

Ingemar Johansson S <ingemar.s.johansson@ericsson.com> Sun, 18 April 2021 14:54 UTC

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From: Ingemar Johansson S <ingemar.s.johansson@ericsson.com>
To: Sebastian Moeller <moeller0@gmx.de>, "De Schepper, Koen (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)" <koen.de_schepper@nokia-bell-labs.com>
CC: tsvwg IETF list <tsvwg@ietf.org>, Ingemar Johansson S <ingemar.s.johansson@ericsson.com>
Thread-Topic: [tsvwg] Prague requirements survey
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Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2021 14:54:47 +0000
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Subject: Re: [tsvwg] Prague requirements survey
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The link below shows results (by no means complete) from an early experiment
(2018) to make TCP BBR L4S capable
https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/101/materials/slides-101-iccrg-bbr-cong
estion-control-with-l4s-support-02

/Ingemar

> -----Original Message-----
> From: tsvwg <tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Sebastian Moeller
> Sent: den 18 april 2021 16:00
> To: De Schepper, Koen (Nokia - BE/Antwerp) <koen.de_schepper@nokia-
> bell-labs.com>
> Cc: tsvwg IETF list <tsvwg@ietf.org>
> Subject: Re: [tsvwg] Prague requirements survey
> 
> Dear list:
> 
> 
> > On Apr 18, 2021, at 12:11, De Schepper, Koen (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)
> <koen.de_schepper@nokia-bell-labs.com> wrote:
> > [...]
> > As a final remark, converging to a steady state rate in the past was
always
> seen as a property of a single mechanism (AIMD of +1 and /2 for Reno, and
> +cubic(t) and *0.7 for Cubic). I believe we are past simple single ACK
> response mechanisms (see BBR, ...) where models based on measurements
> and different states adapt the response and selects appropriate mechanism.
> When we detect we are out of steady state (0% or 100% marking for a
while),
> the selected mechanism can be RTT dependent (getting up to speed,
> avoiding latency, ...), once back in sync with the steady marking rate,
the RTT
> independent response can be selected (whatever the mechanism is).
> 
> [SM] According to for example https://arxiv.org/pdf/1706.09115.pdf BBR
> actually suffers from a reverse RTT unfairness, in which longer RTT flows
> overwhelm shorter RTT flows. While this is intriguingly hinting the
possibility
> of a control loop design that might fall in between the traditional
shorter RTT
> wins and BBR's longer RTT wins, it also demonstrates that RTT-bias is
still not a
> solved problem, even for modern TCP CC as sophisticated and clever as BBR.
> I take this as support for my hypothesis, that the end-points alone simply
are
> not well suited to solve this problem; no matter how convenient that would
> be.
> 
> 
> Best Regards
> 	Sebastian