Re: [tsvwg] New Version Notification for draft-daiya-tsvwg-udp-options-protocol-number-00.txt

Tom Herbert <tom@herbertland.com> Sun, 23 July 2023 14:39 UTC

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From: Tom Herbert <tom@herbertland.com>
Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2023 07:38:56 -0700
Message-ID: <CALx6S35TecnDo5dpOO480tF7oTDyet+Obc72NZjLQeWc=d527g@mail.gmail.com>
To: Daiya Yuyama <daiya@sfc.wide.ad.jp>
Cc: Yoshifumi Nishida <nsd.ietf@gmail.com>, Gorry Fairhurst <gorry@erg.abdn.ac.uk>, Daiya Yuyama <daiya=40sfc.wide.ad.jp@dmarc.ietf.org>, tsvwg <tsvwg@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [tsvwg] New Version Notification for draft-daiya-tsvwg-udp-options-protocol-number-00.txt
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On Sat, Jul 22, 2023, 12:13 PM Daiya Yuyama <daiya@sfc.wide.ad.jp> wrote:

> Dear Nishida-san and Tom-san,
>
> Thank you for your comment.
>
> I understand that it is difficult for middleboxes to distinguish QUIC
> packets. I believe that with this proposal, the fact that the QUIC is
> encrypted will not be an issue.
>
> The current proposal had some confusing parts where it was difficult to
> recognize whether the option was for the middlebox or the end host. This
> proposal is for end hosts, not for middleboxes; UDP options are
> described in Section 14 as intended to be used only by transport
> endpoints, and this proposal is also not intended to be used by
> middleboxes. This will be clearly stated in the next revision.
>

Thanks for the clarification, Experience has shown that we should expect
that any plain text protocol of a packet will eventually be used, abused,
or otherwise ossified by middle boxes regardless of protocol requirements
that might state otherwise. Please consider potential ramifications of that.

Tom




> Thank you.
>
> Daiya
>
> On 2023/07/20 23:35, Tom Herbert wrote:
> > Hi Daiya-san,
> >
> > Many people don't want middleboxes meddling with*anything*  beyond the
> > network layer!
> >
> > Besides that I'm not sure this is feasible, it would require
> > middleboxes to process trailers which is not amenable to efficient
> > implementation for a high performance implementation. Also, this type
> > of marking could only be used with UDP and doesn't help with other
> > protocols. You might want to look at
> > draft-cc-v6ops-wlcg-flow-label-marking, it's a more generic solution
> > that would work with any transport protocol.
> >
> > Tom
> >
>