Re: [tsvwg] New Version Notification for draft-heist-tsvwg-ecn-deployment-observations-02.txt

Ingemar Johansson S <ingemar.s.johansson@ericsson.com> Wed, 10 March 2021 08:20 UTC

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From: Ingemar Johansson S <ingemar.s.johansson@ericsson.com>
To: Jonathan Morton <chromatix99@gmail.com>, "alex.burr@ealdwulf.org.uk" <alex.burr@ealdwulf.org.uk>
CC: Gorry Fairhurst <gorry@erg.abdn.ac.uk>, tsvwg IETF list <tsvwg@ietf.org>, Ingemar Johansson S <ingemar.s.johansson@ericsson.com>
Thread-Topic: [tsvwg] New Version Notification for draft-heist-tsvwg-ecn-deployment-observations-02.txt
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Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2021 08:20:27 +0000
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Subject: Re: [tsvwg] New Version Notification for draft-heist-tsvwg-ecn-deployment-observations-02.txt
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Hi Jonathan

I most certainly hope that we don't spend valuable meeting time on
discussing the real or imagined merits with SCE. 

If you find that specs are unclear as to how enable L4S support in Linux
kernels and elsewhere, including how to navigate around the RFC lingo, then
please point out where to fix this. A good starting point is the L4S Ops
draft.

Like things are now my only interpretation of the situation is that you
place your bets on that L4S will fail and you do your best to make this
failure happen. For instance you point out a problem with fq-codel and L4S
but show little interest or even oppose solutions to have this issue
remedied. Please prove me wrong.

/Ingemar

> -----Original Message-----
> From: tsvwg <tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Jonathan Morton
> Sent: den 9 mars 2021 18:18
> To: alex.burr@ealdwulf.org.uk
> Cc: Gorry Fairhurst <gorry@erg.abdn.ac.uk>uk>; tsvwg IETF list
> <tsvwg@ietf.org>
> Subject: Re: [tsvwg] New Version Notification for draft-heist-tsvwg-ecn-
> deployment-observations-02.txt
> 
> > On 9 Mar, 2021, at 6:33 pm, alex.burr@ealdwulf.org.uk wrote:
> >
> > With hindsight, I'm not sure why rfc8311 (which is standards track)
didn't
> deprecate marking ECT(1) the same way it deprecated endpoints using it,
> outside experiments.
> 
> Because there's more than one possible experiment involving the ECN field.
> SCE actually prefers that existing networks and endpoints continue to
comply
> with RFC-3168 in these respects, originating ECT(0) (though if they
originated
> ECT(1) it actually wouldn't hurt anything) and treating both ECT
codepoints as
> equivalent.  If we started treating ECT(1) differently in the network,
that
> would make deploying SCE more difficult.
> 
> Which is another reason I'm opposed to pre-emptively moving to
> accommodate L4S.  But even if I were to make that change "today" (which I
> probably couldn't, because Linux kernel maintainers also like to be RFC
> compliant), there would be a *long* transition period as existing
equipment
> sits around with old firmware, during which L4S would still need to
> accommodate existing networks or stay away from them, not the other way
> around.
> 
>  - Jonathan Morton