[tsvwg] L4S: Guard DSCP
"Black, David" <David.Black@dell.com> Thu, 22 April 2021 23:41 UTC
Return-Path: <David.Black@dell.com>
X-Original-To: tsvwg@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: tsvwg@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA0543A1946 for <tsvwg@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 22 Apr 2021 16:41:01 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.101
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.101 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=dell.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PcavYQ5uEm3c for <tsvwg@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 22 Apr 2021 16:40:59 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mx0b-00154904.pphosted.com (mx0b-00154904.pphosted.com [148.163.137.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 000D33A1945 for <tsvwg@ietf.org>; Thu, 22 Apr 2021 16:40:58 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from pps.filterd (m0170398.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0b-00154904.pphosted.com (8.16.0.43/8.16.0.43) with SMTP id 13MNXGZA002049 for <tsvwg@ietf.org>; Thu, 22 Apr 2021 19:40:58 -0400
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=dell.com; h=from : to : cc : subject : date : message-id : content-type : mime-version; s=smtpout1; bh=ZDnBZLF+yHUbaMd13mEqgAwOzvINvFy20KoeW/UKGy4=; b=gOIjDpsEmSlqILzQbDIajJluNKljcoP7kqSPfktOvlRwBYUrTbYc34k52Fn3w7jXe1ai RDltXxowISYopaDDG3EZfWZ/IAQAgjWAG3iIwHJztWjg02ShRBeWXRb2x2As3fsXZLQ2 /XNoNPi9nugme6ezSY+hSY2g5+i9uRE/HwdR85eL/7wkRKIzabht+hTPyRSlfkLIRoC3 HLfzHkY0NsbDxKfy6YZrj7yTgs4fDeZouX1KWHHBCv52SUPAypzd6Reg67ssu90ajXc+ aF/MHosPD0w11VoukyFQOA5UkgAKEZMgMelMQ7TkrJMtnkMp3EGluH57POfVXtdXnGMZ /A==
Received: from mx0a-00154901.pphosted.com (mx0a-00154901.pphosted.com [67.231.149.39]) by mx0b-00154904.pphosted.com with ESMTP id 3835fp2x71-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT) for <tsvwg@ietf.org>; Thu, 22 Apr 2021 19:40:57 -0400
Received: from pps.filterd (m0090351.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0b-00154901.pphosted.com (8.16.0.43/8.16.0.43) with SMTP id 13MNZBXv071362 for <tsvwg@ietf.org>; Thu, 22 Apr 2021 19:40:57 -0400
Received: from nam11-co1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-co1nam11lp2169.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.56.169]) by mx0b-00154901.pphosted.com with ESMTP id 382w1tjsvj-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK) for <tsvwg@ietf.org>; Thu, 22 Apr 2021 19:40:56 -0400
ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=j3T7M0p6rvZ7t4fzikLSuSuKcrlyd0l2uZnkiVpECnPHWQM/MRID2FSqR7KGzqtI5hVqhT8zb3IngFmgdMDffxwEQu6msM5PcF8MhwkpakTfuX59uEjTLbOGUgAbnCypiNpeeZr/7kjV9dqQF98h3Kb2skNu01yoMcWBWTYsdDQxdcxhafE7IwGadQGoE7TluZp4JD+ewlkiovA50c4+Ul/8aVR8FKHmGok4cvJddnRQ7C1RK4MLKmTdmlvDaWZJqY51a8azN59EBmt0+htpHz/40YfI5aXWo4KFMLqZq6eQxRrEYR5j3rz5nK/G8fgrZtqfEmbf3Brr/F3SPTapPQ==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=ZDnBZLF+yHUbaMd13mEqgAwOzvINvFy20KoeW/UKGy4=; b=j+BkdZrp5m4F1mgfOfnSqZO3SUEoY3Gzx0cMeA7zmfxZ/tP/73o6gA9VI94bBb9IhmK7zsHdmHLKfiXK3nzEZ4kN5mBZwsCO+9glFzB+K7sgdzfc+mgcGHH5vOU8KuRBmPqYAltW0h70bvR+geFYt4IuSUJ0/e4Jurpd2ed9U8z/8/CUmCaJjokwu1YUY303giz3BJC+t2iOEU5r5ECM5lGXN6iW8pgZaTx6/JQcQuuYymYl1gyQ2gt67xLpCws1MnfqUy/e6tB8sf/QUZm0FkiFK5BFPYbDpsudU7RYziGMvtOBlfqrGJkP+KMPBONPX1mvbbGXx5ct/pxnoUC04Q==
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=dell.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=dell.com; dkim=pass header.d=dell.com; arc=none
Received: from MN2PR19MB4045.namprd19.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:208:1e4::9) by BL0PR1901MB4722.namprd19.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:208:17e::20) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.4065.20; Thu, 22 Apr 2021 23:40:53 +0000
Received: from MN2PR19MB4045.namprd19.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::b1f3:f51d:c01c:2feb]) by MN2PR19MB4045.namprd19.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::b1f3:f51d:c01c:2feb%7]) with mapi id 15.20.4065.021; Thu, 22 Apr 2021 23:40:53 +0000
From: "Black, David" <David.Black@dell.com>
To: "tsvwg@ietf.org" <tsvwg@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: L4S: Guard DSCP
Thread-Index: Adc3zgHga2vzMJZxQH2ZLyO97LVStw==
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2021 23:40:52 +0000
Message-ID: <MN2PR19MB4045D7179410986A46C3E30783469@MN2PR19MB4045.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
msip_labels: MSIP_Label_17cb76b2-10b8-4fe1-93d4-2202842406cd_Enabled=True; MSIP_Label_17cb76b2-10b8-4fe1-93d4-2202842406cd_SiteId=945c199a-83a2-4e80-9f8c-5a91be5752dd; MSIP_Label_17cb76b2-10b8-4fe1-93d4-2202842406cd_Owner=david.black@emc.com; MSIP_Label_17cb76b2-10b8-4fe1-93d4-2202842406cd_SetDate=2021-04-22T23:19:49.4541937Z; MSIP_Label_17cb76b2-10b8-4fe1-93d4-2202842406cd_Name=External Public; MSIP_Label_17cb76b2-10b8-4fe1-93d4-2202842406cd_Application=Microsoft Azure Information Protection; MSIP_Label_17cb76b2-10b8-4fe1-93d4-2202842406cd_ActionId=d0fa759d-f79c-40d6-ad56-d463749e266d; MSIP_Label_17cb76b2-10b8-4fe1-93d4-2202842406cd_Extended_MSFT_Method=Manual
authentication-results: ietf.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;ietf.org; dmarc=none action=none header.from=dell.com;
x-originating-ip: [72.74.71.221]
x-ms-publictraffictype: Email
x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 8ce22f90-0fba-4979-4486-08d905e81149
x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: BL0PR1901MB4722:
x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True
x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: <BL0PR1901MB472256D0024842A163F1950383469@BL0PR1901MB4722.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
x-exotenant: 2khUwGVqB6N9v58KS13ncyUmMJd8q4
x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:10000;
x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1
x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;
x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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
x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:MN2PR19MB4045.namprd19.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(4636009)(136003)(39860400002)(376002)(346002)(366004)(396003)(786003)(4326008)(66476007)(33656002)(122000001)(9686003)(86362001)(83380400001)(38100700002)(64756008)(2906002)(55016002)(8676002)(6916009)(66556008)(66446008)(5660300002)(316002)(71200400001)(76116006)(66946007)(186003)(8936002)(107886003)(478600001)(52536014)(26005)(7696005)(6506007); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101;
x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata: qz8V078oR/RZX2I/4f0jTg8bUlY+NS9PyBrmXBKuo/OjCCi5xV/D3rYC+huQgfSH/YUwOVF2gjxP0e8NR7QWLb5VbYC4BOsPmKp3OYTP+w0vWv9tPeeZK2wUN1hzUd7FNjF1J7NDGUGQWoF0iBuJs7iPp6YxaDO1fbvmbCfkSa/ruIWjT9aMZFvuVIcAq/NGxWm9XsFRuv+juEixq+kVUvuLd3EroOQredThAlK9CSztqFliC128qtUVmDT8cnbAMx43WPtGtcu07bdXXdMsZBBTBNuYs62mhInzubS5Np8DQ7tt87GHKQFKCPU1LDWByTPX422i7ICXsud3Z8Hhf29/abdPouQyuHKTRXIULk0Q/ySY/0iGs5qh2WijrgBj40XAsVgxpkoFdaextv7BdHCZTHN5MJhKjnzd7RIR7CgjT8xt62j8qsm77c0LiXVLPBkwnoMNxMzra3zWOxlloUzqdgGzylmKOtvyHYgQh/405xZQChlz+o9URw1WqYnRj8e9ArGowD7TfRYXlrkl0KG/wgwP4MZ27sB6Fju+0N7kRAC7E+ksNK+bASD2apaDP7MJnhq4hLcGMK7W4c8oW5qcqsmjPp4kwsM1sOEimJK0zQwbdKhTJW2RD6vpLnMMQfMFe5/zK6UUhOpPZ6LVY+BjDlGcwQ6vD3VUSHem/y1+2impgwI1w4IiLriKSstGDO7nNPhdo9Awima+umke0bN9hITiEkWSDjuEOtjDscUZ583w4J4MuEZ6FwmNMlvje+NVGsf92w601CX5GXWZRPL81wS7YnT/kFQJzjik4rVilwumlc47WmdUngGFzrRv3MkNqT/jwd9Lpd/KO/IQE9AAaJNete8TcgzY2UF09jfInDoQH0dIBijsrfKExEsb+J2dKYU5+m58SiCUzqUaP3FoBPGyrSrdUCLsOVMAWvZbkWUCnvJISNQIuyq+QBRGc0wwT/X5Ys/o8Usn2GEBaOW9eUxe819tsAjz6SP/ZjS3Ca//ioMRc3z2K3IBR5tHDyWv4/KJj6lYGk6zf+5c9A4BNnmLpcCH6IWZI7UiFQllHTSfrlaq2Fqs7U8HHoWm9R0nViXGt0Sbo4A/GHHYl6TYkJ7D3TmtUKUHpT4YKTEXWraaZr6okyBbXx0l9lMMkbtyjHTX3yjdL344zJ/2YMevzLbT0xd3rNE9RGi2Qq+v8Os4T/qczcB1deJGzNmPdghDC86EViUYTpFbbeSdQFgT9oQJs/e4C6dv9yFRlgt3IWeismITJvSGvBU43zjJfXvNF0gnVDZTm/B7MZ0yGzsU1oVO38FU7T6XU7Q2lDRObXAVdeBMyHl03uqIbEDo
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_MN2PR19MB4045D7179410986A46C3E30783469MN2PR19MB4045namp_"
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-OriginatorOrg: Dell.com
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: MN2PR19MB4045.namprd19.prod.outlook.com
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 8ce22f90-0fba-4979-4486-08d905e81149
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 22 Apr 2021 23:40:52.8748 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 945c199a-83a2-4e80-9f8c-5a91be5752dd
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: UhxI9gur75T5akxp3vfhSF82g5HK8lS4AFXdjP6shZ01s3IxjaklQ4zRJnWxJT1zh0Qk4U4B4kSJ/Nu+MYcXTg==
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BL0PR1901MB4722
X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.391, 18.0.761 definitions=2021-04-22_15:2021-04-22, 2021-04-22 signatures=0
X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_notspam policy=outbound score=0 malwarescore=0 mlxscore=0 clxscore=1015 priorityscore=1501 mlxlogscore=656 impostorscore=0 phishscore=0 suspectscore=0 adultscore=0 spamscore=0 bulkscore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2104060000 definitions=main-2104220173
X-Proofpoint-GUID: pQ7KUhUxKkJOTxEpT2Na9CXWSHwi7w7X
X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: pQ7KUhUxKkJOTxEpT2Na9CXWSHwi7w7X
X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 mlxscore=0 malwarescore=0 mlxlogscore=764 bulkscore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 spamscore=0 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2104060000 definitions=main-2104220173
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tsvwg/aaQMnxA8-3tc3gz6T5gvgQeHIuk>
Subject: [tsvwg] L4S: Guard DSCP
X-BeenThere: tsvwg@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Transport Area Working Group <tsvwg.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/tsvwg>, <mailto:tsvwg-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/tsvwg/>
List-Post: <mailto:tsvwg@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:tsvwg-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tsvwg>, <mailto:tsvwg-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2021 23:41:02 -0000
[posted as an individual, not as a WG chair] Some time ago, I wrote: > in the hope of fostering productive discussion, I'll try to put together a summary (as an individual) of what a Guard DSCP > could look like whose sole purpose is to better equip operators to deal with things that might go wrong in an L4S > experiment (without redesigning the experiment). Patience, please ... Here's that attempt, but first some process discussion ... The L4S ops draft currently contains material for operators of L4S hosts (Section 4) and for operators of networks participating in the L4S experiment who experience problems at RFC 3168 FIFO bottlenecks in their own networks). A Guard DSCP for L4S complements material in the L4S ops draft by providing means for an operator actively participating in the L4S experiment to deal with reports that L4S traffic leaving the operator's network is causing problems downstream in a network that may not be participating in the L4S experiment (including an all-but-unmanaged residential WiFi access point). I'd suggest that initial discussion focus on what a Guard DSCP for L4S is and how it works with a goal of getting detailed text on that into the L4S ops draft, after which could come the inevitable heated discussion on requirement level (MUST/SHOULD/MAY) for a Guard DSCP. ... and so here is that summary for discussion, phrased as goals/guidelines for specifying the Guard DSCP: DO: 1. Mark all L4S traffic with a Guard DSCP at endpoints and/or network edges. 2. Participating operators are able to identify and separately handle Guard DSCP traffic at network boundaries, dropping it as a last resort. Strongly discourage traffic filtering to drop ECT(1) traffic. 3. Plan to remove Guard DSCP requirement if L4S experiment succeeds. DON'T 1. Require AQMs to use Guard DSCP in addition to ECT(1) to identify L4S traffic. This should be allowed, not required, which is already the case - see Section 5.4 of the ecn-l4s-id draft. 2. Rely on DSCPs for signaling or modify transport protocols to have reactions that vary by received DSCP. 3. Do anything else that would be a significant obstacle to removing use of the Guard DSCP if the L4S experiment succeeds. For further discussion: Operator/technology-specific alternate means of accomplishing the functional equivalent of A & B E.g., I would think that 5G networks have other means at their disposal to handle traffic aggregates at network boundaries in a fashion that could make 5G use of a Guard DSCP pointless. This is what I had in mind for a Guard DSCP - I'll do my best to promptly answer questions, respond to comments etc. Please try to keep the discussion calm and technical. [reminder: posted as an individual, not as a WG chair] Thanks, --David David L. Black, Sr. Distinguished Engineer, Technology & Standards Infrastructure Solutions Group, Dell Technologies mobile +1 978-394-7754 David.Black@dell.com<mailto:David.Black@dell.com>
- [tsvwg] L4S: Guard DSCP Black, David
- Re: [tsvwg] L4S: Guard DSCP Jonathan Morton
- Re: [tsvwg] L4S: Guard DSCP Pete Heist
- Re: [tsvwg] L4S: Guard DSCP C. M. Heard
- Re: [tsvwg] L4S: Guard DSCP Pete Heist
- Re: [tsvwg] L4S: Guard DSCP Sebastian Moeller
- Re: [tsvwg] L4S: Guard DSCP C. M. Heard
- Re: [tsvwg] L4S: Guard DSCP Jonathan Morton
- Re: [tsvwg] L4S: Guard DSCP C. M. Heard
- Re: [tsvwg] L4S: Guard DSCP Black, David
- Re: [tsvwg] L4S: Guard DSCP C. M. Heard
- Re: [tsvwg] L4S: Guard DSCP Ruediger.Geib
- Re: [tsvwg] L4S: Guard DSCP Black, David
- Re: [tsvwg] L4S: Guard DSCP Greg White
- Re: [tsvwg] L4S: Guard DSCP C. M. Heard
- Re: [tsvwg] L4S: Guard DSCP Gorry Fairhurst
- Re: [tsvwg] L4S: Guard DSCP Greg White
- Re: [tsvwg] L4S: Guard DSCP Jonathan Morton
- Re: [tsvwg] L4S: Guard DSCP Ingemar Johansson S
- Re: [tsvwg] L4S: Guard DSCP Jonathan Morton
- Re: [tsvwg] L4S: Guard DSCP Ingemar Johansson S
- Re: [tsvwg] L4S: Guard DSCP Jonathan Morton
- Re: [tsvwg] L4S: Guard DSCP Pete Heist
- [tsvwg] Scope of the L4S Experiment (was: Guard D… C. M. Heard
- Re: [tsvwg] Scope of the L4S Experiment (was: Gua… Black, David
- Re: [tsvwg] Scope of the L4S Experiment (was: Gua… Jonathan Morton
- Re: [tsvwg] Scope of the L4S Experiment (was: Gua… Steven Blake
- Re: [tsvwg] Scope of the L4S Experiment (was: Gua… Ingemar Johansson S
- Re: [tsvwg] Scope of the L4S Experiment (was: Gua… Jonathan Morton
- Re: [tsvwg] Scope of the L4S Experiment (was: Gua… Ingemar Johansson S
- Re: [tsvwg] Scope of the L4S Experiment (was: Gua… Jonathan Morton
- Re: [tsvwg] Scope of the L4S Experiment (was: Gua… Black, David
- Re: [tsvwg] Scope of the L4S Experiment (was: Gua… Ingemar Johansson S
- Re: [tsvwg] Scope of the L4S Experiment (was: Gua… Jonathan Morton
- Re: [tsvwg] Scope of the L4S Experiment (was: Gua… Gorry Fairhurst
- Re: [tsvwg] Scope of the L4S Experiment (was: Gua… Ingemar Johansson S