Re: [tsvwg] 3rd WGLC (limited-scope): draft-ietf-tsvwg-transport-encrypt-15, closes 29 June 2020
Spencer Dawkins at IETF <spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com> Thu, 11 June 2020 20:57 UTC
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From: Spencer Dawkins at IETF <spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2020 15:57:17 -0500
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To: Paul Vixie <paul@redbarn.org>
Cc: "tsvwg@ietf.org" <tsvwg@ietf.org>, Mike Bishop <mbishop@evequefou.be>
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Subject: Re: [tsvwg] 3rd WGLC (limited-scope): draft-ietf-tsvwg-transport-encrypt-15, closes 29 June 2020
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I have opinions about this draft that I've been pretty vocal about to the working group during the past couple of years and in the first two WGLCs, but just to follow up on this point: On Wed, Jun 10, 2020 at 2:02 PM Paul Vixie <paul@redbarn.org> wrote: > On Wednesday, 10 June 2020 15:45:50 UTC Mike Bishop wrote: > snipped > > On the whole, I think this document could be suitable for publication as > an > > Informational RFC; it provides real-world context for a trade-off that > > every protocol designer needs to consider carefully. However, I don’t > > believe its current state reflects, in Ekr’s words, “the IETF community's > > view of the relative priority of these concerns.” > > the ietf community is incredibly narrow compared to the world it serves. > very > few of the people and companies whose future will be chosen for them by > ietf > work can afford the time or travel it takes to be represented. this may be > an > inconvenient truth, but it is my reason for considering whether this > document > reflects the broader view of the world's digital economy. i think it does. > Keeping in mind that the target is publication as an Informational RFC, I believe the governing BCP definition is still https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2026#section-4.2.2, which says 4.2.2 Informational An "Informational" specification is published for the general information of the Internet community, and does not represent an Internet community consensus or recommendation. The Informational designation is intended to provide for the timely publication of a very broad range of responsible informational documents from many sources, subject only to editorial considerations and to verification that there has been adequate coordination with the standards process (see section 4.2.3). Does anyone think that's been updated? If this document was targeting publication as a BCP, concerns about whether this document reflects the consensus of the Internet community would be on target, but it's targeting Informational, and should be evaluated with that target in mind. Best, Spencer p.s. Funny story - IESGs that EKR and I served on, among others, talked about whether the RFC 2026 definition of Informational made sense in the 21st century, but ADs are busy, and the definition never changed. ISTM that at a minimum, the text should say "*might* not represent an Internet community consensus or recommendation", rather than "*does* not represent does not represent an Internet community consensus or recommendation". Now that we have a GENDISPATCH working group, there's actually a place that the community can go to talk about that definition, if anyone wants to.
- [tsvwg] 3rd WGLC (limited-scope): draft-ietf-tsvw… Black, David
- Re: [tsvwg] [saag] 3rd WGLC (limited-scope): draf… mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [tsvwg] 3rd WGLC (limited-scope): draft-ietf-… Paul Vixie
- Re: [tsvwg] 3rd WGLC (limited-scope): draft-ietf-… Mike Bishop
- Re: [tsvwg] 3rd WGLC (limited-scope): draft-ietf-… Paul Vixie
- Re: [tsvwg] 3rd WGLC (limited-scope): draft-ietf-… Spencer Dawkins at IETF
- Re: [tsvwg] 3rd WGLC (limited-scope): draft-ietf-… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [tsvwg] 3rd WGLC (limited-scope): draft-ietf-… Joseph Touch
- Re: [tsvwg] 3rd WGLC (limited-scope): draft-ietf-… Black, David
- Re: [tsvwg] 3rd WGLC (limited-scope): draft-ietf-… Spencer Dawkins at IETF
- Re: [tsvwg] 3rd WGLC (limited-scope): draft-ietf-… Kathleen Moriarty
- Re: [tsvwg] 3rd WGLC (limited-scope): draft-ietf-… Spencer Dawkins at IETF
- Re: [tsvwg] 3rd WGLC (limited-scope): draft-ietf-… Joe Touch
- Re: [tsvwg] 3rd WGLC (limited-scope): draft-ietf-… Rodney W. Grimes
- Re: [tsvwg] 3rd WGLC (limited-scope): draft-ietf-… Mike Bishop
- Re: [tsvwg] [saag] 3rd WGLC (limited-scope): draf… Kyle Rose
- Re: [tsvwg] 3rd WGLC (limited-scope): draft-ietf-… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [tsvwg] 3rd WGLC (limited-scope): draft-ietf-… Roni Even
- Re: [tsvwg] [Int-area] 3rd WGLC (limited-scope): … Tom Herbert
- Re: [tsvwg] 3rd WGLC (limited-scope): draft-ietf-… Holland, Jake
- Re: [tsvwg] [Int-area] 3rd WGLC (limited-scope): … Gorry Fairhurst
- Re: [tsvwg] [saag] 3rd WGLC (limited-scope): draf… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [tsvwg] [saag] 3rd WGLC (limited-scope): draf… Christopher Wood
- Re: [tsvwg] [saag] 3rd WGLC (limited-scope): draf… Hannes Tschofenig
- Re: [tsvwg] [saag] 3rd WGLC (limited-scope): draf… Gorry Fairhurst
- Re: [tsvwg] [saag] 3rd WGLC (limited-scope): draf… Martin Thomson
- Re: [tsvwg] [saag] 3rd WGLC (limited-scope): draf… Spencer Dawkins at IETF
- Re: [tsvwg] [saag] 3rd WGLC (limited-scope): draf… Colin Perkins
- Re: [tsvwg] [saag] 3rd WGLC (limited-scope): draf… Colin Perkins
- Re: [tsvwg] [saag] 3rd WGLC (limited-scope): draf… mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [tsvwg] [saag] 3rd WGLC (limited-scope): draf… Hannes Tschofenig
- Re: [tsvwg] [saag] 3rd WGLC (limited-scope): draf… Ruediger.Geib
- Re: [tsvwg] [saag] 3rd WGLC (limited-scope): draf… Kyle Rose
- Re: [tsvwg] [Int-area] [saag] 3rd WGLC (limited-s… Dirk.von-Hugo
- Re: [tsvwg] [Int-area] [saag] 3rd WGLC (limited-s… Joseph Touch
- Re: [tsvwg] [saag] [Int-area] 3rd WGLC (limited-s… Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: [tsvwg] [Int-area] [saag] 3rd WGLC (limited-s… tom petch
- Re: [tsvwg] [Int-area] [saag] 3rd WGLC (limited-s… Spencer Dawkins at IETF