Return-Path: X-Original-To: tsvwg@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: tsvwg@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D29428C215 for ; Wed, 1 Dec 2010 05:17:55 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.253 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.253 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.254, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_23=0.6, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BTZDcOW+oUXr for ; Wed, 1 Dec 2010 05:17:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from mgw-da02.nokia.com (smtp.nokia.com [147.243.128.26]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C08828C239 for ; Wed, 1 Dec 2010 05:17:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.fit.nokia.com (esdhcp030222.research.nokia.com [172.21.30.222]) by mgw-da02.nokia.com (Switch-3.4.3/Switch-3.4.3) with ESMTP id oB1DIxPq013839 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 1 Dec 2010 15:19:00 +0200 Subject: Re: Reminder: WGLC Announcement for draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports-08 - 26th November 2010 X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.96.4 at fit.nokia.com Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1082) Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary=Apple-Mail-43--630285474; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1 From: Lars Eggert In-Reply-To: <4CF6448A.3000601@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 15:18:46 +0200 Message-Id: References: <4CE573AC.6050708@erg.abdn.ac.uk> <4CED3A82.5050708@ericsson.com> <4CF60F04.60101@ericsson.com> <4CF6252A.2020303@cisco.com> <4CF6448A.3000601@cisco.com> To: Eliot Lear X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1082) X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.6 (mail.fit.nokia.com); Wed, 01 Dec 2010 15:18:52 +0200 (EET) X-Nokia-AV: Clean Cc: Magnus Westerlund , Paul Hoffman , tsvwg WG X-BeenThere: tsvwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Transport Area Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Dec 2010 13:17:55 -0000 --Apple-Mail-43--630285474 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi, On 2010-12-1, at 14:50, Eliot Lear wrote: > On 12/1/10 12:05 PM, Lars Eggert wrote: >> I agree with you that the reasons for having separate port ranges are = bogus, but the *reality* is that it *matters* whether your port is above = or below 1024 on many deployed systems. And hence it matters for = applicants what number they get. >=20 > No it doesn't. The nature of computing today is such that the > distinction is lost because most so-called privileged processes are > running either on single user machines where the user is the > administrator, or on servers where this sort of thing is coordinated. On the platforms that require admin rights to bind to ports less then = 1024, it certainly matters. A user running such an app somehow needs to = know to run it with root privileges. These platforms are not rare. So even if we removed the boundary and said that the registered ports go = from 1-49151, we would *still* need to treat the 1-1024 range = differently. Handing out ports < 1024 to arbitrary requests will cause = issues, when such apps gets deployed on platforms that require admin = rights to bind to them.=20 I agree that the distinction didn't make sense and doesn't make sense, = but enough platforms act differently depending on what range your port = falls into that we can't simply pretend the ranges are identical. = They're not. Even if we don't like it. So the iana-ports document does what at least the authors considered to = be the practical way forward: the 0-1023 range requires "IETF Review" or = "IESG Approval". Effectively, this means that you cannot get those ports = anymore without the IETF OK'ing it. Essentially, this means we're moving = everyone into the 1024-49151 range. Do I believe that the IETF should make a statement that implementations = should stop requiring admin rights for the 0-1023 range? Sure. But the = iana-ports document is not the place for that statement. 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