Re: [tsvwg] ECT(1): Plan for Vancouver
Ingemar Johansson S <ingemar.s.johansson@ericsson.com> Thu, 05 March 2020 09:43 UTC
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From: Ingemar Johansson S <ingemar.s.johansson@ericsson.com>
To: "tsvwg@ietf.org" <tsvwg@ietf.org>, "David.Black@dell.com" <David.Black@dell.com>
CC: Ingemar Johansson S <ingemar.s.johansson@ericsson.com>
Thread-Topic: ECT(1): Plan for Vancouver
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Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2020 09:42:51 +0000
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Subject: Re: [tsvwg] ECT(1): Plan for Vancouver
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Hi I believe that the outline looks good over all . One problem is the term "starvation". Depending on who you ask and what the preferences are, you are likely to get different opinions. The discussion I have seen on this list is more about that certain traffic classes are potentially treated more unfairly for a number of reasons. But based on how I interpret the term "starvation" I don't agree that the term describes the concerns. Perhaps, what is needed is to define what goes under "starvation". To take one analogy.. Income inequality is a growing concern in Sweden (yes it's true also for socialist Sweden!). Still, it can't be claimed that people are starving, people have food on the table. /I > > During the interim meeting (https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2020- > tsvwg-01/session/tsvwg), the plan for dealing with ECT(1) in Vancouver was > discussed based on version -02 of the chairs slides that are posted here: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/slides-interim-2020-tsvwg-01-sessa-ect1- > chairs-slides/ . The chairs believe that the rough consensus of the TSVWG WG is > to proceed as outlined on slides 5-7 of that slide deck, whose contents are > reproduced below. Anyone who disagrees with this course of action should > reply to the list with an explanation. > > -- Slide 5: ECT(1): Agreeing on the Decision to be Made > > > * Next two slides: TSVWG Chairs attempt to state the decision > > * Goal of this Interim Meeting: Rough consensus on decision to be made > * Non?goal of this Interim Meeting: Actually make the decision > > > * Vancouver meeting plan (in order): > > 1. Begin with revised versions of next two slides > 2. L4S and SCE each present a few slides on best use of ECT(1) for the Internet > 3. TSVWG Chairs set time & content guidelines, review and post in advance (1 > week or more) > * TSVWG Chairs frame and moderate Vancouver meeting discussion > 4. A small miracle happens, and the decision is made (we hope) > > > > * Now: Review next two slides for content > > * Do not attempt to make decision now. > > -- Slide 6: DRAFT Vancouver SLIDE 1: Framing the ECT(1) Codepoint Decision > > Background: RFC 4774 ?Specifying Alternate Semantics for the Explicit > Congestion Notification (ECN) Field? > > * RFC 4774 assumes DSCP as signal of alternate ECN semantics. > * TSVWG situation: Two proposals that use ECT(1) as that signal [L4S, SCE] > > Decision: How ECT(1) signals alternate ECN semantics to network: > > 1. Input, e.g., classifier for ?queue? selection [L4S] > 2. Output, e.g., indication of lesser degree of ?queue? congestion [SCE] > At Internet scope: Choose at most one, not both. > > -- Slide 7: DRAFT Vancouver SLIDE 2: Friendly Coexistence with Competing > Traffic > > Both proposals [L4S, SCE] employ RFC 4774 Option 3 (section 4.3): > > * Incremental Deployment Option 3: Friendly Coexistence with Competing > Traffic > * Competing Traffic uses existing TCP congestion control, e.g., Reno, Cubic, > etc. > Coexistence Focus: Shared bottleneck queue with ECN AQM [RFC 3168] > > * FQ network nodes: Not a significant cause of coexistence problems > Scenario: Traffic competition at shared bottleneck queue: > > 1. Starvation of one class of traffic is not an acceptable outcome. > * Starvation may occur in network and/or at endpoints (e.g., caused by > congestion response) > 2. Competing Traffic drives bottleneck queue occupancy level. > Proposals need to explain how to deal with this scenario. > > Thanks, --David (on behalf of David, Wes & Gorry - TSVWG chairs) > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/tsvwg/attachments/20200303/4af66 > b29/attachment.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2020 16:17:11 -0800 > From: Stephen Farrell via Datatracker <noreply@ietf.org> > To: <secdir@ietf.org> > Cc: draft-ietf-tsvwg-datagram-plpmtud.all@ietf.org, > last-call@ietf.org, tsvwg@ietf.org > Subject: [tsvwg] Secdir last call review of > draft-ietf-tsvwg-datagram-plpmtud-15 > Message-ID: <158328103137.7648.9240148667630328703@ietfa.amsl.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Reviewer: Stephen Farrell > Review result: Has Issues > > > Hi, > > As Hilary Orman always nicely says: do not be alarmed, > this is just a secdir review:-) > > I classed this as "has issues," but the issues below should be > fairly easy to fix. Maybe all but 2 are real issues that say are > worth fixing, if I'm right about 'em (but I'm also often wrong > too:-) > > Cheers, > S. > > - Abstract: This draft aims for proposed standard but is > updating a BCP (RFC8085/BCP145). I'm happy to leave the > process-lawyering for that to others. > > - 4.1: I'm not sure if this is recommending that PLs allow for > padding outside of cryptographic protection. If so, that > seems like an anti-pattern when considering the overall set of > requirements one might envisage for a PL. If not, that's fine, > but would it be worth stating that? > > - 4.4: Would you count the AEAD tag length in the MPS of an > AEAD-encrypting PL or not? I assume not, and the tag length > is counted as PL overhead even if sent as a sort-of trailer > within the ciphertext? > > - 4.4: What'd be the MPS etc for an MP-TCP-like PL? Is that > well-defined? > > - 4.5: (a nit) "The validation SHOULD utilize information that > it is not simple for an off-path attacker to determine > [RFC8085]." A SHOULD that's that vague seems likely prone to > issues. Might be best to just s/SHOULD/ought/ or something > like that. > > - 6.2.3: what if TLS record layer padding is being done as > well? Probably just needs a mention, so people don't get > their sums/APIs wrong. > > - 6.3: I am surprised that the QUIC description here is ready > to be an RFC before QUIC itself. I do see there are > normative references, but the potential for a breaking change > still exists, and seems a bit unwise. (I'd suggest, holding > this in the WG 'till the referenced QUIC drafts are in the RFC > editor queue, or else taking that bit out and putting it into > a new I-D.) > > - section 9: Ok this is a stretch so maybe not worth bothering > with but... A PL doing all this may be emitting oddly sized > padding octets from time to time that piggy-back on > application data. That (number of padding octets and the > pattern with which those are emitted) seems like a medium-nice > covert channel e.g. for exfiltrating data, not necessarily to > the packet destination but to anyone on-path who can observe > the signal. > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2020 01:58:33 -0800 (PST) > From: RFC Errata System <rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org> > To: ietf@bobbriscoe.net, kk@teraoptic.com, floyd@aciri.org, > black_david@emc.com > Cc: ietf@kuehlewind.net, iesg@ietf.org, tsvwg@ietf.org, > rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org > Subject: [tsvwg] [Errata Held for Document Update] RFC3168 (4754) > Message-ID: <20200304095833.277C3F4071F@rfc-editor.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > The following errata report has been held for document update > for RFC3168, "The Addition of Explicit Congestion Notification (ECN) to IP". > > -------------------------------------- > You may review the report below and at: > https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid4754 > > -------------------------------------- > Status: Held for Document Update > Type: Editorial > > Reported by: Bob Briscoe <ietf@bobbriscoe.net> > Date Reported: 2016-07-31 > Held by: Mirja K?hlewind (IESG) > > Section: Header block > > Original Text > ------------- > Updates: 2474, 2401, 2003, 793 > > > Corrected Text > -------------- > Updates: 2474, 2401, 2003, 2473, 793 > > Notes > ----- > RFC 3168 updates RFC 2473 but does not indicate this in its header block. > > Specifically, Section 9 of RFC 3168 defined processing of the ECN field for > Encapsulated Packets, which updated section 6.4 of RFC 2473, where the > creation of the "IPv6 Tunnel Packet Traffic Class" was specified. RFC3168 also > updated the decapsulation behaviour of the ECN field in an IPv6 tunnel header, > which had not been specified in RFC2473. > > Note 1: As well as tagging RFC3168 with this erratum, RFC2473 needs to be > tagged (in the RFC index and associated tools outputs) to indicate that it is > updated by RFC3168. > > Note 2: Originally, the "Updates:" header of RFC3168 did not contain "2003", > which was added as a result of Errata ID 2660. > > Note 3: The first sentence of section 9.1 in RFC3168 should also be modified as > follows: > Original text: > The encapsulation of IP packet headers in tunnels is used in many > places, including IPsec and IP in IP [RFC2003]. > Corrected text: > The encapsulation of IP packet headers in tunnels is used in many > places, including IPsec and IP in IP [RFC2003, 2473]. > Comment: > Nowadays RFC2473 would be a normative reference, but RFC3168 pre-dated > the categorisation of references into normative and informative. > > Note 4: Section 9 of RFC3168 has since been updated by RFC6040. Nonetheless, > that is already correctly identified in RFC6040. > > This reported errata has be moved to "Held for Document Update". While the > reported problem is correct and needs to be addressed, it is not just an errata > but a larger oversight at publication time. > > -------------------------------------- > RFC3168 (draft-ietf-tsvwg-ecn-04) > -------------------------------------- > Title : The Addition of Explicit Congestion Notification (ECN) to IP > Publication Date : September 2001 > Author(s) : K. Ramakrishnan, S. Floyd, D. Black > Category : PROPOSED STANDARD > Source : Transport Area Working Group > Area : Transport > Stream : IETF > Verifying Party : IESG > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2020 11:06:15 +0100 > From: Mirja Kuehlewind <ietf@kuehlewind.net> > To: tsvwg@ietf.org > Cc: Bob Briscoe <ietf@bobbriscoe.net>, kk@teraoptic.com, > black_david@emc.com, IESG <iesg@ietf.org> > Subject: Re: [tsvwg] [Errata Held for Document Update] RFC3168 (4754) > Message-ID: <10D606C7-7291-422A-B2A3-1A4B4FA17332@kuehlewind.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > Hi tsvwg, > > I just moved this errata to ?Held for Document Update? as there are multiple > points in this errata which go beyond just being an errata. > > However there is also errata 4997 which only address the missing update: > > https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid4997 > > Should this errata be verified and the update tag added? > > Mirja > > > > > On 4. Mar 2020, at 10:58, RFC Errata System <rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org> > wrote: > > > > The following errata report has been held for document update > > for RFC3168, "The Addition of Explicit Congestion Notification (ECN) to IP". > > > > -------------------------------------- > > You may review the report below and at: > > https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid4754 > > > > -------------------------------------- > > Status: Held for Document Update > > Type: Editorial > > > > Reported by: Bob Briscoe <ietf@bobbriscoe.net> > > Date Reported: 2016-07-31 > > Held by: Mirja K?hlewind (IESG) > > > > Section: Header block > > > > Original Text > > ------------- > > Updates: 2474, 2401, 2003, 793 > > > > > > Corrected Text > > -------------- > > Updates: 2474, 2401, 2003, 2473, 793 > > > > Notes > > ----- > > RFC 3168 updates RFC 2473 but does not indicate this in its header block. > > > > Specifically, Section 9 of RFC 3168 defined processing of the ECN field for > Encapsulated Packets, which updated section 6.4 of RFC 2473, where the > creation of the "IPv6 Tunnel Packet Traffic Class" was specified. RFC3168 also > updated the decapsulation behaviour of the ECN field in an IPv6 tunnel header, > which had not been specified in RFC2473. > > > > Note 1: As well as tagging RFC3168 with this erratum, RFC2473 needs to be > tagged (in the RFC index and associated tools outputs) to indicate that it is > updated by RFC3168. > > > > Note 2: Originally, the "Updates:" header of RFC3168 did not contain "2003", > which was added as a result of Errata ID 2660. > > > > Note 3: The first sentence of section 9.1 in RFC3168 should also be modified as > follows: > > Original text: > > The encapsulation of IP packet headers in tunnels is used in many > > places, including IPsec and IP in IP [RFC2003]. > > Corrected text: > > The encapsulation of IP packet headers in tunnels is used in many > > places, including IPsec and IP in IP [RFC2003, 2473]. > > Comment: > > Nowadays RFC2473 would be a normative reference, but RFC3168 pre-dated > the categorisation of references into normative and informative. > > > > Note 4: Section 9 of RFC3168 has since been updated by RFC6040. > Nonetheless, that is already correctly identified in RFC6040. > > > > This reported errata has be moved to "Held for Document Update". While the > reported problem is correct and needs to be addressed, it is not just an errata > but a larger oversight at publication time. > > > > -------------------------------------- > > RFC3168 (draft-ietf-tsvwg-ecn-04) > > -------------------------------------- > > Title : The Addition of Explicit Congestion Notification (ECN) to IP > > Publication Date : September 2001 > > Author(s) : K. Ramakrishnan, S. Floyd, D. Black > > Category : PROPOSED STANDARD > > Source : Transport Area Working Group > > Area : Transport > > Stream : IETF > > Verifying Party : IESG > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2020 11:12:02 +0100 > From: Mirja Kuehlewind <ietf@kuehlewind.net> > To: tsvwg@ietf.org > Cc: kk@teraoptic.com, black_david@emc.com, Magnus Westerlund > <magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com>, david.black@dell.com, Gorry > Fairhurst <gorry@erg.abdn.ac.uk>, Wesley Eddy <wes@mti- > systems.com>, > Richard Scheffenegger <rscheff@gmx.at> > Subject: Re: [tsvwg] [Editorial Errata Reported] RFC3168 (5966) > Message-ID: <414A38D3-915C-4C82-AAD6-FDEB1B2929E9@kuehlewind.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > Hi tsvwg, > > Another errata on RFC3168. > > I think this whole errata is a change that goes beyond just being an errata, > therefore I would suggest to mark this as ?Held for Document Update?. > > I guess we could have an errata for only adding the word ?new? in section 6.1 > but that would need to be a separate errata then. > > Any opinions? > > Mirja > > > > > On 26. Jan 2020, at 01:57, RFC Errata System <rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org> > wrote: > > > > The following errata report has been submitted for RFC3168, > > "The Addition of Explicit Congestion Notification (ECN) to IP". > > > > -------------------------------------- > > You may review the report below and at: > > https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid5966 > > > > -------------------------------------- > > Type: Editorial > > Reported by: Richard Scheffenegger <rscheff@gmx.at> > > > > Section: 6.1 > > > > Original Text > > ------------- > > Section 6.1 states: > > > > * The sender sets the CWR flag in the TCP header of the next > > packet sent to the receiver to acknowledge its receipt of and > > reaction to the ECN-Echo flag. > > > > section 6.1.2 clarifies: > > > > > > We ensure that the "Congestion Window Reduced" information is > > reliably delivered to the TCP receiver. This comes about from the > > fact that if the new data packet carrying the CWR flag is dropped, > > then the TCP sender will have to again reduce its congestion window, > > and send another new data packet with the CWR flag set. Thus, the > > CWR bit in the TCP header SHOULD NOT be set on retransmitted packets. > > > > When the TCP data sender is ready to set the CWR bit after reducing > > the congestion window, it SHOULD set the CWR bit only on the first > > new data packet that it transmits. > > > > Corrected Text > > -------------- > > Section 6.1 should say: > > > > > > * The sender sets the CWR flag in the TCP header of the next new > > data packet sent to the receiver to acknowledge its receipt of and > > reaction to the ECN-Echo flag. > > > > Section 6.1.2 should clarify, that a receiver MUST process an incoming CWR > > on any incoming segment, and not exclude non-new-data segments. > > > > This clarification allows new semantics to be used by a sender-side only > > change, and should be taken into account by all documents updating RFC3168. > > > > Notes > > ----- > > Discrepancies in the above text lead to poorly interoperating implementations. > In NetBSD (and derived implementationd), the "SHOULD set CWR on new data" > was used liberal in setting CWR on the very next packet to be sent, regardless of > type. While at the same time the Linux implementation performed very stingent > tests on the receiver side, if the sender was complying with the "SHOULD" like a > "MUST". In request-response session with frequently changing data direction, > this leads to a collapse of the congestion window, as the *BSD side will continue > to interpret the still latched ECE flag as an indication of another RTT of > congestion. > > > > Instructions: > > ------------- > > This erratum is currently posted as "Reported". If necessary, please > > use "Reply All" to discuss whether it should be verified or > > rejected. When a decision is reached, the verifying party > > can log in to change the status and edit the report, if necessary. > > > > -------------------------------------- > > RFC3168 (draft-ietf-tsvwg-ecn-04) > > -------------------------------------- > > Title : The Addition of Explicit Congestion Notification (ECN) to IP > > Publication Date : September 2001 > > Author(s) : K. Ramakrishnan, S. Floyd, D. Black > > Category : PROPOSED STANDARD > > Source : Transport Area Working Group > > Area : Transport > > Stream : IETF > > Verifying Party : IESG > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2020 11:45:48 +0100 > From: "Richard Scheffenegger" <rscheff@gmx.at> > To: "Mirja Kuehlewind" <ietf@kuehlewind.net>, <tsvwg@ietf.org> > Cc: <kk@teraoptic.com>, <black_david@emc.com>, "Magnus Westerlund" > <magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com>, <david.black@dell.com>, "Gorry > Fairhurst" <gorry@erg.abdn.ac.uk>, "Wesley Eddy" <wes@mti- > systems.com> > Subject: Re: [tsvwg] [Editorial Errata Reported] RFC3168 (5966) > Message-ID: <32AD4D853B034B2EA08C71260781C3AC@srichardlxp2> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="UTF-8"; > reply-type=original > > > I think clarification of the CWR handling should also be mentioned in ECN++, > since ECT setting there is allowed on every packet. > > In the fbsd environment, as 3168 allows ECT only on new data packets while > sending, it is easy to send out CWR only when ECT is also set (in the same > check). > > Simply enhancing this in ECN++ to allow setting ECT on any packet, may > result in also sending CWR on control packets without data. And Bob made a > compelling case, a sender needs to reliably know when a window, during which > congestion occured, ends (that is, sending cwr only with new data, or > differently, setting cwr when the octete snd_max+1 is sent in the stream. > > E.g. in ecn++, the below corrected text would be prudent to have. > > Best regards, > Richard > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mirja Kuehlewind" <ietf@kuehlewind.net> > To: <tsvwg@ietf.org> > Cc: <kk@teraoptic.com>; <black_david@emc.com>; "Magnus Westerlund" > <magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com>; <david.black@dell.com>; "Gorry > Fairhurst" > <gorry@erg.abdn.ac.uk>; "Wesley Eddy" <wes@mti-systems.com>; "Richard > Scheffenegger" <rscheff@gmx.at> > Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2020 11:12 AM > Subject: Re: [Editorial Errata Reported] RFC3168 (5966) > > > Hi tsvwg, > > Another errata on RFC3168. > > I think this whole errata is a change that goes beyond just being an errata, > therefore I would suggest to mark this as ?Held for Document Update?. > > I guess we could have an errata for only adding the word ?new? in section > 6.1 but that would need to be a separate errata then. > > Any opinions? > > Mirja > > > > > On 26. Jan 2020, at 01:57, RFC Errata System <rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org> > > wrote: > > > > The following errata report has been submitted for RFC3168, > > "The Addition of Explicit Congestion Notification (ECN) to IP". > > > > -------------------------------------- > > You may review the report below and at: > > https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid5966 > > > > -------------------------------------- > > Type: Editorial > > Reported by: Richard Scheffenegger <rscheff@gmx.at> > > > > Section: 6.1 > > > > Original Text > > ------------- > > Section 6.1 states: > > > > * The sender sets the CWR flag in the TCP header of the next > > packet sent to the receiver to acknowledge its receipt of and > > reaction to the ECN-Echo flag. > > > > section 6.1.2 clarifies: > > > > > > We ensure that the "Congestion Window Reduced" information is > > reliably delivered to the TCP receiver. This comes about from the > > fact that if the new data packet carrying the CWR flag is dropped, > > then the TCP sender will have to again reduce its congestion window, > > and send another new data packet with the CWR flag set. Thus, the > > CWR bit in the TCP header SHOULD NOT be set on retransmitted packets. > > > > When the TCP data sender is ready to set the CWR bit after reducing > > the congestion window, it SHOULD set the CWR bit only on the first > > new data packet that it transmits. > > > > Corrected Text > > -------------- > > Section 6.1 should say: > > > > > > * The sender sets the CWR flag in the TCP header of the next new > > data packet sent to the receiver to acknowledge its receipt of and > > reaction to the ECN-Echo flag. > > > > Section 6.1.2 should clarify, that a receiver MUST process an incoming CWR > > on any incoming segment, and not exclude non-new-data segments. > > > > This clarification allows new semantics to be used by a sender-side only > > change, and should be taken into account by all documents updating > > RFC3168. > > > > Notes > > ----- > > Discrepancies in the above text lead to poorly interoperating > > implementations. In NetBSD (and derived implementationd), the "SHOULD set > > CWR on new data" was used liberal in setting CWR on the very next packet > > to be sent, regardless of type. While at the same time the Linux > > implementation performed very stingent tests on the receiver side, if the > > sender was complying with the "SHOULD" like a "MUST". In request-response > > session with frequently changing data direction, this leads to a collapse > > of the congestion window, as the *BSD side will continue to interpret the > > still latched ECE flag as an indication of another RTT of congestion. > > > > Instructions: > > ------------- > > This erratum is currently posted as "Reported". If necessary, please > > use "Reply All" to discuss whether it should be verified or > > rejected. When a decision is reached, the verifying party > > can log in to change the status and edit the report, if necessary. > > > > -------------------------------------- > > RFC3168 (draft-ietf-tsvwg-ecn-04) > > -------------------------------------- > > Title : The Addition of Explicit Congestion Notification > > (ECN) to IP > > Publication Date : September 2001 > > Author(s) : K. Ramakrishnan, S. Floyd, D. Black > > Category : PROPOSED STANDARD > > Source : Transport Area Working Group > > Area : Transport > > Stream : IETF > > Verifying Party : IESG > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2020 03:30:26 -0800 (PST) > From: RFC Errata System <rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org> > To: mnot@mnot.net, michelle.cotton@icann.org, lars.eggert@nokia.com, > touch@isi.edu, magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com, > cheshire@apple.com > Cc: ietf@kuehlewind.net, iesg@ietf.org, tsvwg@ietf.org, > rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org > Subject: [tsvwg] [Errata Held for Document Update] RFC6335 (4999) > Message-ID: <20200304113026.A855CF40725@rfc-editor.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > The following errata report has been held for document update > for RFC6335, "Internet Assigned Numbers Authority (IANA) Procedures for the > Management of the Service Name and Transport Protocol Port Number > Registry". > > -------------------------------------- > You may review the report below and at: > https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid4999 > > -------------------------------------- > Status: Held for Document Update > Type: Technical > > Reported by: Mark Nottingham <mnot@mnot.net> > Date Reported: 2017-04-19 > Held by: Mirja K?hlewind (IESG) > > Section: GLOBAL > > Original Text > ------------- > > > Corrected Text > -------------- > > > Notes > ----- > Many port number assignments are to individuals, but the document does not > contemplate how they should be handled when the assignee is dead or > otherwise can't be contacted. > > The most obvious procedure to follow is a transfer (8.5), but that requires > de-assignment (8.2), and that doesn't cover the case above. > > -------------------------------------- > RFC6335 (draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports-10) > -------------------------------------- > Title : Internet Assigned Numbers Authority (IANA) Procedures for the > Management of the Service Name and Transport Protocol Port Number Registry > Publication Date : August 2011 > Author(s) : M. Cotton, L. Eggert, J. Touch, M. Westerlund, S. Cheshire > Category : BEST CURRENT PRACTICE > Source : Transport Area Working Group > Area : Transport > Stream : IETF > Verifying Party : IESG > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2020 06:52:15 -0800 > From: Joseph Touch <touch@strayalpha.com> > To: RFC Errata System <rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org> > Cc: Mark Nottingham <mnot@mnot.net>, michelle.cotton@icann.org, > lars.eggert@nokia.com, "Dr. Joe Touch" <touch@isi.edu>, > magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com, cheshire@apple.com, > ietf@kuehlewind.net, iesg@ietf.org, tsvwg@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [tsvwg] [Errata Held for Document Update] RFC6335 (4999) > Message-ID: <9FDCD0E5-730B-4B19-83A5-C2A710344AD8@strayalpha.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > Hi, all, > > I disagree; Sec 8.4 allows for IANA-initiated deassignment. The deassignment > procedures there and in Sec 8.3 make it clear that there?s not much point in > focusing on cases when the assignee can?t be contacted (for whatever reason). > > Further, sec 7.9 of RFC 7605 underscores a point made throughout RFC 6335 - > that port assignments aren?t intended to be changed. So the lack of such a > contact isn?t really an issue except in very rare cases (for which the exception > processes in RFC 6335 are already sufficient). > > Joe > > > On Mar 4, 2020, at 3:30 AM, RFC Errata System <rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org> > wrote: > > > > The following errata report has been held for document update > > for RFC6335, "Internet Assigned Numbers Authority (IANA) Procedures for the > Management of the Service Name and Transport Protocol Port Number > Registry". > > > > -------------------------------------- > > You may review the report below and at: > > https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid4999 > > > > -------------------------------------- > > Status: Held for Document Update > > Type: Technical > > > > Reported by: Mark Nottingham <mnot@mnot.net> > > Date Reported: 2017-04-19 > > Held by: Mirja K?hlewind (IESG) > > > > Section: GLOBAL > > > > Original Text > > ------------- > > > > > > Corrected Text > > -------------- > > > > > > Notes > > ----- > > Many port number assignments are to individuals, but the document does not > > contemplate how they should be handled when the assignee is dead or > > otherwise can't be contacted. > > > > The most obvious procedure to follow is a transfer (8.5), but that requires > > de-assignment (8.2), and that doesn't cover the case above. > > > > -------------------------------------- > > RFC6335 (draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports-10) > > -------------------------------------- > > Title : Internet Assigned Numbers Authority (IANA) Procedures for the > Management of the Service Name and Transport Protocol Port Number Registry > > Publication Date : August 2011 > > Author(s) : M. Cotton, L. Eggert, J. Touch, M. Westerlund, S. Cheshire > > Category : BEST CURRENT PRACTICE > > Source : Transport Area Working Group > > Area : Transport > > Stream : IETF > > Verifying Party : IESG > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2020 16:33:06 +0100 > From: Mirja Kuehlewind <ietf@kuehlewind.net> > To: Joseph Touch <touch@strayalpha.com> > Cc: RFC Errata System <rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org>, cheshire@apple.com, > magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com, tsvwg@ietf.org, "Dr. Joe Touch" > <touch@isi.edu>, Mark Nottingham <mnot@mnot.net>, iesg@ietf.org, > lars.eggert@nokia.com > Subject: Re: [tsvwg] [Errata Held for Document Update] RFC6335 (4999) > Message-ID: <AF545F5E-278E-4D4D-BB17-5239496050CC@kuehlewind.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > Hi Joe, > > I?ve put this into ?hold for document update" because I think that is a good > point that can be further clarified if we ever update RFC6335 and thus this is a > good tool to remember. This was also how this was meant to be treated when > Mark filed the errata; originally there was a note that this should be hold for > update from him which I obviously removed when I made the status change. Of > course anything we may or may not want to change needs further discussion. > > Mirja > > > > > On 4. Mar 2020, at 15:52, Joseph Touch <touch@strayalpha.com> wrote: > > > > Hi, all, > > > > I disagree; Sec 8.4 allows for IANA-initiated deassignment. The deassignment > procedures there and in Sec 8.3 make it clear that there?s not much point in > focusing on cases when the assignee can?t be contacted (for whatever reason). > > > > Further, sec 7.9 of RFC 7605 underscores a point made throughout RFC 6335 - > that port assignments aren?t intended to be changed. So the lack of such a > contact isn?t really an issue except in very rare cases (for which the exception > processes in RFC 6335 are already sufficient). > > > > Joe > > > >> On Mar 4, 2020, at 3:30 AM, RFC Errata System <rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org> > wrote: > >> > >> The following errata report has been held for document update > >> for RFC6335, "Internet Assigned Numbers Authority (IANA) Procedures for the > Management of the Service Name and Transport Protocol Port Number > Registry". > >> > >> -------------------------------------- > >> You may review the report below and at: > >> https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid4999 > >> > >> -------------------------------------- > >> Status: Held for Document Update > >> Type: Technical > >> > >> Reported by: Mark Nottingham <mnot@mnot.net> > >> Date Reported: 2017-04-19 > >> Held by: Mirja K?hlewind (IESG) > >> > >> Section: GLOBAL > >> > >> Original Text > >> ------------- > >> > >> > >> Corrected Text > >> -------------- > >> > >> > >> Notes > >> ----- > >> Many port number assignments are to individuals, but the document does not > >> contemplate how they should be handled when the assignee is dead or > >> otherwise can't be contacted. > >> > >> The most obvious procedure to follow is a transfer (8.5), but that requires > >> de-assignment (8.2), and that doesn't cover the case above. > >> > >> -------------------------------------- > >> RFC6335 (draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports-10) > >> -------------------------------------- > >> Title : Internet Assigned Numbers Authority (IANA) Procedures for the > Management of the Service Name and Transport Protocol Port Number Registry > >> Publication Date : August 2011 > >> Author(s) : M. Cotton, L. Eggert, J. Touch, M. Westerlund, S. Cheshire > >> Category : BEST CURRENT PRACTICE > >> Source : Transport Area Working Group > >> Area : Transport > >> Stream : IETF > >> Verifying Party : IESG > >> > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2020 07:44:05 -0800 > From: Joseph Touch <touch@strayalpha.com> > To: Mirja Kuehlewind <ietf@kuehlewind.net> > Cc: Magnus Westerlund <magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com>, TSVWG > <tsvwg@ietf.org>, "Dr. Joe Touch" <touch@isi.edu>, Mark Nottingham > <mnot@mnot.net>, IESG <iesg@ietf.org>, lars.eggert@nokia.com, RFC > Errata System <rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org> > Subject: Re: [tsvwg] [Errata Held for Document Update] RFC6335 (4999) > Message-ID: <DFD91525-CEA7-46DE-BEC9-06D6A0E61B0B@strayalpha.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > I think there are two related but importantly distinct issues, if we want to do > that: > > - orphans (assignee cannot be contacted, for whatever reason) > - organizational assignee transitions (company dissolves, takeover, etc) > > Both of these arguably involve legal issues that may be difficult to navigate. If a > port goes with the assigned company, then is it also similarly inherited upon > death? > > The note should point out that the assignee isn?t a shepherd of the assignment; > changes are always supposed to be a very rare exception exactly because it is > nearly impossible to prove a negative (that no deployed systems are affected by > changes). > > Joe > > > On Mar 4, 2020, at 7:33 AM, Mirja Kuehlewind <ietf@kuehlewind.net> wrote: > > > > Hi Joe, > > > > I?ve put this into ?hold for document update" because I think that is a good > point that can be further clarified if we ever update RFC6335 and thus this is a > good tool to remember. This was also how this was meant to be treated when > Mark filed the errata; originally there was a note that this should be hold for > update from him which I obviously removed when I made the status change. Of > course anything we may or may not want to change needs further discussion. > > > > Mirja > > > > > > > >> On 4. Mar 2020, at 15:52, Joseph Touch <touch@strayalpha.com> wrote: > >> > >> Hi, all, > >> > >> I disagree; Sec 8.4 allows for IANA-initiated deassignment. The deassignment > procedures there and in Sec 8.3 make it clear that there?s not much point in > focusing on cases when the assignee can?t be contacted (for whatever reason). > >> > >> Further, sec 7.9 of RFC 7605 underscores a point made throughout RFC 6335 > - that port assignments aren?t intended to be changed. So the lack of such a > contact isn?t really an issue except in very rare cases (for which the exception > processes in RFC 6335 are already sufficient). > >> > >> Joe > >> > >>> On Mar 4, 2020, at 3:30 AM, RFC Errata System <rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org> > wrote: > >>> > >>> The following errata report has been held for document update > >>> for RFC6335, "Internet Assigned Numbers Authority (IANA) Procedures for > the Management of the Service Name and Transport Protocol Port Number > Registry". > >>> > >>> -------------------------------------- > >>> You may review the report below and at: > >>> https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid4999 > >>> > >>> -------------------------------------- > >>> Status: Held for Document Update > >>> Type: Technical > >>> > >>> Reported by: Mark Nottingham <mnot@mnot.net> > >>> Date Reported: 2017-04-19 > >>> Held by: Mirja K?hlewind (IESG) > >>> > >>> Section: GLOBAL > >>> > >>> Original Text > >>> ------------- > >>> > >>> > >>> Corrected Text > >>> -------------- > >>> > >>> > >>> Notes > >>> ----- > >>> Many port number assignments are to individuals, but the document does > not > >>> contemplate how they should be handled when the assignee is dead or > >>> otherwise can't be contacted. > >>> > >>> The most obvious procedure to follow is a transfer (8.5), but that requires > >>> de-assignment (8.2), and that doesn't cover the case above. > >>> > >>> -------------------------------------- > >>> RFC6335 (draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports-10) > >>> -------------------------------------- > >>> Title : Internet Assigned Numbers Authority (IANA) Procedures for > the Management of the Service Name and Transport Protocol Port Number > Registry > >>> Publication Date : August 2011 > >>> Author(s) : M. Cotton, L. Eggert, J. Touch, M. Westerlund, S. Cheshire > >>> Category : BEST CURRENT PRACTICE > >>> Source : Transport Area Working Group > >>> Area : Transport > >>> Stream : IETF > >>> Verifying Party : IESG > >>> > >> > >> > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 11 > Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2020 16:55:19 +0100 > From: Mirja Kuehlewind <ietf@kuehlewind.net> > To: Joseph Touch <touch@strayalpha.com> > Cc: Magnus Westerlund <magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com>, TSVWG > <tsvwg@ietf.org>, Mark Nottingham <mnot@mnot.net>, > lars.eggert@nokia.com > Subject: Re: [tsvwg] [Errata Held for Document Update] RFC6335 (4999) > Message-ID: <472C45E3-CC3B-4D97-AB30-050EEB5B97F3@kuehlewind.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > Hi Joe, > > At this point I can not easily change the note anymore. I would need to ask the > RFC Editor to move the state back to ?Reported" but given this is not a verified > errata but just a reminder for a potentially document update, I?m not sure if that > really needed. > > Mirja > > > > > On 4. Mar 2020, at 16:44, Joseph Touch <touch@strayalpha.com> wrote: > > > > I think there are two related but importantly distinct issues, if we want to do > that: > > > > - orphans (assignee cannot be contacted, for whatever reason) > > - organizational assignee transitions (company dissolves, takeover, etc) > > > > Both of these arguably involve legal issues that may be difficult to navigate. If > a port goes with the assigned company, then is it also similarly inherited upon > death? > > > > The note should point out that the assignee isn?t a shepherd of the > assignment; changes are always supposed to be a very rare exception exactly > because it is nearly impossible to prove a negative (that no deployed systems are > affected by changes). > > > > Joe > > > >> On Mar 4, 2020, at 7:33 AM, Mirja Kuehlewind <ietf@kuehlewind.net> wrote: > >> > >> Hi Joe, > >> > >> I?ve put this into ?hold for document update" because I think that is a good > point that can be further clarified if we ever update RFC6335 and thus this is a > good tool to remember. This was also how this was meant to be treated when > Mark filed the errata; originally there was a note that this should be hold for > update from him which I obviously removed when I made the status change. Of > course anything we may or may not want to change needs further discussion. > >> > >> Mirja > >> > >> > >> > >>> On 4. Mar 2020, at 15:52, Joseph Touch <touch@strayalpha.com> wrote: > >>> > >>> Hi, all, > >>> > >>> I disagree; Sec 8.4 allows for IANA-initiated deassignment. The > deassignment procedures there and in Sec 8.3 make it clear that there?s not > much point in focusing on cases when the assignee can?t be contacted (for > whatever reason). > >>> > >>> Further, sec 7.9 of RFC 7605 underscores a point made throughout RFC 6335 > - that port assignments aren?t intended to be changed. So the lack of such a > contact isn?t really an issue except in very rare cases (for which the exception > processes in RFC 6335 are already sufficient). > >>> > >>> Joe > >>> > >>>> On Mar 4, 2020, at 3:30 AM, RFC Errata System <rfc-editor@rfc- > editor.org> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> The following errata report has been held for document update > >>>> for RFC6335, "Internet Assigned Numbers Authority (IANA) Procedures for > the Management of the Service Name and Transport Protocol Port Number > Registry". > >>>> > >>>> -------------------------------------- > >>>> You may review the report below and at: > >>>> https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid4999 > >>>> > >>>> -------------------------------------- > >>>> Status: Held for Document Update > >>>> Type: Technical > >>>> > >>>> Reported by: Mark Nottingham <mnot@mnot.net> > >>>> Date Reported: 2017-04-19 > >>>> Held by: Mirja K?hlewind (IESG) > >>>> > >>>> Section: GLOBAL > >>>> > >>>> Original Text > >>>> ------------- > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Corrected Text > >>>> -------------- > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Notes > >>>> ----- > >>>> Many port number assignments are to individuals, but the document does > not > >>>> contemplate how they should be handled when the assignee is dead or > >>>> otherwise can't be contacted. > >>>> > >>>> The most obvious procedure to follow is a transfer (8.5), but that requires > >>>> de-assignment (8.2), and that doesn't cover the case above. > >>>> > >>>> -------------------------------------- > >>>> RFC6335 (draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports-10) > >>>> -------------------------------------- > >>>> Title : Internet Assigned Numbers Authority (IANA) Procedures for > the Management of the Service Name and Transport Protocol Port Number > Registry > >>>> Publication Date : August 2011 > >>>> Author(s) : M. Cotton, L. Eggert, J. Touch, M. Westerlund, S. Cheshire > >>>> Category : BEST CURRENT PRACTICE > >>>> Source : Transport Area Working Group > >>>> Area : Transport > >>>> Stream : IETF > >>>> Verifying Party : IESG > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >> > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 12 > Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2020 15:55:20 +0000 > From: Gorry Fairhurst <gorry@erg.abdn.ac.uk> > To: Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie>, secdir@ietf.org > Cc: draft-ietf-tsvwg-datagram-plpmtud.all@ietf.org, > last-call@ietf.org, tsvwg@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [tsvwg] Secdir last call review of > draft-ietf-tsvwg-datagram-plpmtud-15 > Message-ID: <b721e053-e8f7-07d0-42c5-11fd25d5d6ea@erg.abdn.ac.uk> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed > > Thanks for this review Stephen. > > On 04/03/2020 00:17, Stephen Farrell via Datatracker wrote: > > Reviewer: Stephen Farrell > > Review result: Has Issues > > > > > > Hi, > > > > As Hilary Orman always nicely says: do not be alarmed, > > this is just a secdir review:-) > > > > I classed this as "has issues," but the issues below should be > > fairly easy to fix. Maybe all but 2 are real issues that say are > > worth fixing, if I'm right about 'em (but I'm also often wrong > > too:-) > > > > Cheers, > > S. > > > > - Abstract: This draft aims for proposed standard but is > > updating a BCP (RFC8085/BCP145). I'm happy to leave the > > process-lawyering for that to others. > We spoke with our TSV ADs and they? don't see any issue with this. BCP > and Standards track are equivalent. > > - 4.1: I'm not sure if this is recommending that PLs allow for > > padding outside of cryptographic protection. If so, that > > seems like an anti-pattern when considering the overall set of > > requirements one might envisage for a PL. If not, that's fine, > > but would it be worth stating that? > We suggest adding to the security considerations, see later. > > - 4.4: Would you count the AEAD tag length in the MPS of an > > AEAD-encrypting PL or not? I assume not, and the tag length > > is counted as PL overhead even if sent as a sort-of trailer > > within the ciphertext? > > Yes, all PL-overhead is included, but I think worth noting explicitly in > Section 4.1 to avoid doubt. I suggest we add: > > OLD: > Protocols that permit exchange of control messages > (without an application data block) can generate a probe packet by > extending a control message with padding data. > NEW: > Protocols that permit exchange of control messages > (without an application data block) can generate a probe packet by > extending a control message with padding data. The total size of a > probe packet includes all headers and padding added to the payload data > being sent (e.g., including protocol option fields, security-related > fields such as an AEAD tag and TLS record layer padding). > > > - 4.4: What'd be the MPS etc for an MP-TCP-like PL? Is that > > well-defined? > > For MP-TCP this isn't an issue, but each PL could have it's own issues > and needs to work out what MPS means. > > > - 4.5: (a nit) "The validation SHOULD utilize information that > > it is not simple for an off-path attacker to determine > > [RFC8085]." A SHOULD that's that vague seems likely prone to > > issues. Might be best to just s/SHOULD/ought/ or something > > like that. > > RFC8085 does provide some examples, and this is a common-enough > transport requirement to protect from DDOS. Could the SHOULD be retained > and this be fixed by a more specific reference perhaps? > > (see Section 5.1 of [RFC8085]). > > > - 6.2.3: what if TLS record layer padding is being done as > > well? Probably just needs a mention, so people don't get > > their sums/APIs wrong. > Agree. Please see proposeed text above and the proposed adds to the > security considerations below. > > - 6.3: I am surprised that the QUIC description here is ready > > to be an RFC before QUIC itself. I do see there are > > normative references, but the potential for a breaking change > > still exists, and seems a bit unwise. (I'd suggest, holding > > this in the WG 'till the referenced QUIC drafts are in the RFC > > editor queue, or else taking that bit out and putting it into > > a new I-D.) > > > > - section 9: Ok this is a stretch so maybe not worth bothering > > with but... A PL doing all this may be emitting oddly sized > > padding octets from time to time that piggy-back on > > application data. That (number of padding octets and the > > pattern with which those are emitted) seems like a medium-nice > > covert channel e.g. for exfiltrating data, not necessarily to > > the packet destination but to anyone on-path who can observe > > the signal. > > I think this is useful. Security thoughts are always welcome. How about > adding two extra paras to the Security Considerations, are these near?: > > "DPLPMTUD methods can introduce padding data to inflate the length of > the datagram to the total size required for a probe packet. The total > size of a probe packet includes all headers and padding added to the > payload data being sent (e.g., including security-related fields such as > an AEAD tag and TLS record layer padding). The value of the padding data > does not influence the DPLPMTUD search algorithm, and therefore needs to > be set consistent with the policy of the PL.? A secure PL MUST provide > cryptographic protection for the padding if this is needed to satisfy > the security requirements of that PL. > > A PL that implements this spec would send probe packets, whose size and > frequency can be observed by the network. Designers of search algorithms > need to consider whether the size of probe packets and the pattern of > probing could result in a potential covert channel (e.g., for > exfiltrating data to an on-path device or the endpoint of the connection). " > > Gorry > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 13 > Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2020 17:42:15 +0000 > From: Bob Briscoe <ietf@bobbriscoe.net> > To: ietf@kuehlewind.net > Cc: RFC Errata System <rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org>, KK Ramakrishnan > <kk@cs.ucr.edu>, "BLack, David" <David.Black@dell.com>, > iesg@ietf.org, > tsvwg@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [tsvwg] [Errata Held for Document Update] RFC3168 (4754) > Message-ID: <fafeafaf-421b-ac68-d5e6-a61a9f7c3262@bobbriscoe.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed" > > Mirja, > > I don't even remember writing this Erratum, it's so old (or maybe it's > me that's so old - don't comment on that tho). > > The main reason for reporting omissions in the "Updates" header is to > ensure that people who are responsible for implementations of updated > RFCs know that they are meant to watch RFC3168 (and its updates). It > would be useful if the tools view showed accepted errata to the Updates > header below the "Updated by" field (in the grey area at the top of the > HTML of a draft). > > Any chance that this is possible? > > > FYI, according to the 3168 errata list, there are 3 missing refs in the > updates header of 3168 now. But they each have a different status: > > Errata ID: 2660 <https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid2660>*Status: > Verified* Add "Updates: 2003" > Errata ID: 4997 <https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid4997> *Status: > Reported *Add "Updates: 2460" > Errata ID: 4754 <https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid4754>*Status: Held > for Document Update *Add "Updates: 2473" > > > Bob > > On 04/03/2020 09:58, RFC Errata System wrote: > > The following errata report has been held for document update > > for RFC3168, "The Addition of Explicit Congestion Notification (ECN) to IP". > > > > -------------------------------------- > > You may review the report below and at: > > https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid4754 > > > > -------------------------------------- > > Status: Held for Document Update > > Type: Editorial > > > > Reported by: Bob Briscoe <ietf@bobbriscoe.net> > > Date Reported: 2016-07-31 > > Held by: Mirja K?hlewind (IESG) > > > > Section: Header block > > > > Original Text > > ------------- > > Updates: 2474, 2401, 2003, 793 > > > > > > Corrected Text > > -------------- > > Updates: 2474, 2401, 2003, 2473, 793 > > > > Notes > > ----- > > RFC 3168 updates RFC 2473 but does not indicate this in its header block. > > > > Specifically, Section 9 of RFC 3168 defined processing of the ECN field for > Encapsulated Packets, which updated section 6.4 of RFC 2473, where the > creation of the "IPv6 Tunnel Packet Traffic Class" was specified. RFC3168 also > updated the decapsulation behaviour of the ECN field in an IPv6 tunnel header, > which had not been specified in RFC2473. > > > > Note 1: As well as tagging RFC3168 with this erratum, RFC2473 needs to be > tagged (in the RFC index and associated tools outputs) to indicate that it is > updated by RFC3168. > > > > Note 2: Originally, the "Updates:" header of RFC3168 did not contain "2003", > which was added as a result of Errata ID 2660. > > > > Note 3: The first sentence of section 9.1 in RFC3168 should also be modified as > follows: > > Original text: > > The encapsulation of IP packet headers in tunnels is used in many > > places, including IPsec and IP in IP [RFC2003]. > > Corrected text: > > The encapsulation of IP packet headers in tunnels is used in many > > places, including IPsec and IP in IP [RFC2003, 2473]. > > Comment: > > Nowadays RFC2473 would be a normative reference, but RFC3168 pre- > dated the categorisation of references into normative and informative. > > > > Note 4: Section 9 of RFC3168 has since been updated by RFC6040. > Nonetheless, that is already correctly identified in RFC6040. > > > > This reported errata has be moved to "Held for Document Update". While the > reported problem is correct and needs to be addressed, it is not just an errata > but a larger oversight at publication time. > > > > -------------------------------------- > > RFC3168 (draft-ietf-tsvwg-ecn-04) > > -------------------------------------- > > Title : The Addition of Explicit Congestion Notification (ECN) to IP > > Publication Date : September 2001 > > Author(s) : K. Ramakrishnan, S. Floyd, D. Black > > Category : PROPOSED STANDARD > > Source : Transport Area Working Group > > Area : Transport > > Stream : IETF > > Verifying Party : IESG > > -- > ________________________________________________________________ > Bob Briscoe http://bobbriscoe.net/ > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/tsvwg/attachments/20200304/dd74 > 294d/attachment.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 14 > Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2020 19:37:48 +0100 > From: Mirja Kuehlewind <ietf@kuehlewind.net> > To: Bob Briscoe <ietf@bobbriscoe.net> > Cc: "BLack, David" <David.Black@dell.com>, TSVWG <tsvwg@ietf.org>, KK > Ramakrishnan <kk@cs.ucr.edu> > Subject: Re: [tsvwg] [Errata Held for Document Update] RFC3168 (4754) > Message-ID: <003EC68D-9136-46A2-9044-85CCBE75FDFE@kuehlewind.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > Hi Bob, > > I?ve sent a note about this on tsvwg list. > > However, I now see that I got a bit confused about this. I thought this errata and > 4997 would add the same RFC in updates, which is not the case as you correctly > stated below. > > Errata 2660 was verified a while ago and the RFC editor actually added the > respective update tags for that RFC. So we could do the same for RFC2460 and > RFC2473 (meaning that if ?Held for update? was not correct for this one, I can > request the RFC editor to revert it). However, I would like to get further input > from the group if that is the correct thing to do. > > Mirja > > > > > On 4. Mar 2020, at 18:42, Bob Briscoe <ietf@bobbriscoe.net> wrote: > > > > Mirja, > > > > I don't even remember writing this Erratum, it's so old (or maybe it's me that's > so old - don't comment on that tho). > > > > The main reason for reporting omissions in the "Updates" header is to ensure > that people who are responsible for implementations of updated RFCs know > that they are meant to watch RFC3168 (and its updates). It would be useful if the > tools view showed accepted errata to the Updates header below the "Updated > by" field (in the grey area at the top of the HTML of a draft). > > > > Any chance that this is possible? > > > > > > FYI, according to the 3168 errata list, there are 3 missing refs in the updates > header of 3168 now. But they each have a different status: > > > > Errata ID: 2660 Status: Verified Add "Updates: 2003" > > Errata ID: 4997 Status: Reported Add "Updates: 2460" > > Errata ID: 4754 Status: Held for Document Update Add "Updates: 2473" > > > > > > Bob > > > > On 04/03/2020 09:58, RFC Errata System wrote: > >> The following errata report has been held for document update > >> for RFC3168, "The Addition of Explicit Congestion Notification (ECN) to IP". > >> > >> -------------------------------------- > >> You may review the report below and at: > >> > >> https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid4754 > >> > >> > >> -------------------------------------- > >> Status: Held for Document Update > >> Type: Editorial > >> > >> Reported by: Bob Briscoe > >> <ietf@bobbriscoe.net> > >> > >> Date Reported: 2016-07-31 > >> Held by: Mirja K?hlewind (IESG) > >> > >> Section: Header block > >> > >> Original Text > >> ------------- > >> Updates: 2474, 2401, 2003, 793 > >> > >> > >> Corrected Text > >> -------------- > >> Updates: 2474, 2401, 2003, 2473, 793 > >> > >> Notes > >> ----- > >> RFC 3168 updates RFC 2473 but does not indicate this in its header block. > >> > >> Specifically, Section 9 of RFC 3168 defined processing of the ECN field for > Encapsulated Packets, which updated section 6.4 of RFC 2473, where the > creation of the "IPv6 Tunnel Packet Traffic Class" was specified. RFC3168 also > updated the decapsulation behaviour of the ECN field in an IPv6 tunnel header, > which had not been specified in RFC2473. > >> > >> Note 1: As well as tagging RFC3168 with this erratum, RFC2473 needs to be > tagged (in the RFC index and associated tools outputs) to indicate that it is > updated by RFC3168. > >> > >> Note 2: Originally, the "Updates:" header of RFC3168 did not contain "2003", > which was added as a result of Errata ID 2660. > >> > >> Note 3: The first sentence of section 9.1 in RFC3168 should also be modified > as follows: > >> Original text: > >> The encapsulation of IP packet headers in tunnels is used in many > >> places, including IPsec and IP in IP [RFC2003]. > >> Corrected text: > >> The encapsulation of IP packet headers in tunnels is used in many > >> places, including IPsec and IP in IP [RFC2003, 2473]. > >> Comment: > >> Nowadays RFC2473 would be a normative reference, but RFC3168 pre- > dated the categorisation of references into normative and informative. > >> > >> Note 4: Section 9 of RFC3168 has since been updated by RFC6040. > Nonetheless, that is already correctly identified in RFC6040. > >> > >> This reported errata has be moved to "Held for Document Update". While the > reported problem is correct and needs to be addressed, it is not just an errata > but a larger oversight at publication time. > >> > >> -------------------------------------- > >> RFC3168 (draft-ietf-tsvwg-ecn-04) > >> -------------------------------------- > >> Title : The Addition of Explicit Congestion Notification (ECN) to IP > >> Publication Date : September 2001 > >> Author(s) : K. Ramakrishnan, S. Floyd, D. Black > >> Category : PROPOSED STANDARD > >> Source : Transport Area Working Group > >> Area : Transport > >> Stream : IETF > >> Verifying Party : IESG > >> > > > > -- > > > ________________________________________________________________ > > Bob Briscoe > > http://bobbriscoe.net/ > > > > End of tsvwg Digest, Vol 191, Issue 3 > *************************************
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