Re: [tsvwg] [saag] TSVWG WGLC: draft-ietf-tsvwg-transport-encrypt-08, closes 23 October 2019
"Roni Even (A)" <roni.even@huawei.com> Thu, 17 October 2019 09:10 UTC
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From: "Roni Even (A)" <roni.even@huawei.com>
To: "tsvwg@ietf.org" <tsvwg@ietf.org>
CC: Christian Huitema <huitema@huitema.net>
Thread-Topic: [tsvwg] [saag] TSVWG WGLC: draft-ietf-tsvwg-transport-encrypt-08, closes 23 October 2019
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Subject: Re: [tsvwg] [saag] TSVWG WGLC: draft-ietf-tsvwg-transport-encrypt-08, closes 23 October 2019
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Hi, In my view the draft expands the text in RFC7258 "Making networks unmanageable to mitigate PM is not an acceptable outcome, but ignoring PM would go against the consensus documented here. An appropriate balance will emerge over time as real instances of this tension are considered." . There is no more text in RFC7258 that discuss what should an unacceptable outcome. It is not biased since it complements RFC7258 and RFC7624 as described in the introduction "Encryption of transport layer headers and payload data has many benefits in terms of protecting user privacy. These benefits have been widely discussed [RFC7258<https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7258>], [RFC7624<https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7624>], and this document strongly supports the increased use of encryption in transport protocols. " In my view it represent not only the view of the middlebox vendors but also among others, the operators that need to manage their networks . Roni Even From: tsvwg [mailto:tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Christian Huitema Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2019 5:33 PM To: Black, David; tsvwg@ietf.org Subject: Re: [tsvwg] [saag] TSVWG WGLC: draft-ietf-tsvwg-transport-encrypt-08, closes 23 October 2019 As the draft mentions: The use of transport layer authentication and encryption exposes a tussle between middlebox vendors, operators, applications developers and users Much of the draft reads like a lamentation of the horrible consequences of encrypting transport headers, which looks very much like embracing the point of view of the middlebox vendors. Expressing that point of view is of course fine, and it might be enough to change the title, abstract and introduction to reflect that this is an opinion piece. But as a transport working group document I would like something a bit more balanced. It should spend more time acknowledging the ossification and privacy issues. It should ideally lay the ground work for alternative management solutions, such as controlled exposure like the spin bit in QUIC, IP header information, or standardized logs like the QLOG effort. -- Christian Huitema On 10/8/2019 2:08 PM, Black, David wrote: FYI - some OPS area and SEC area eyes on this TSVWG draft now (during WGLC) would be a good thing ;-). Thanks, --David (TSVWG co-chair) From: Black, David <david.black@emc.com><mailto:david.black@emc.com> Sent: Tuesday, October 8, 2019 5:06 PM To: tsvwg@ietf.org<mailto:tsvwg@ietf.org> Cc: Black, David Subject: WGLC: draft-ietf-tsvwg-transport-encrypt-08, closes 23 October 2019 This email announces a TSVWG Working Group Last Call (WGLC) on: The Impact of Transport Header Confidentiality on Network Operation and Evolution of the Internet draft-ietf-tsvwg-transport-encrypt-08 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-tsvwg-transport-encrypt/ This draft is intended to become an Informational RFC. This WGLC will run through the end of the day on Wednesday, October 23. That should allow time before the Singapore draft submission cutoff for the authors to revise the draft with any changes that result from WGLC. Comments should be sent to the tsvwg@ietf.org<mailto:tsvwg@ietf.org> list, although purely editorial comments may be sent directly to the authors. Please cc: the WG chairs at tsvwg-chairs@ietf.org<mailto:tsvwg-chairs@ietf.org> if you would like the chairs to track such editorial comments as part of the WGLC process. No IPR disclosures have been submitted directly on this draft. Thanks, David, Gorry and Wes (TSVWG Co-Chairs) _______________________________________________ saag mailing list saag@ietf.org<mailto:saag@ietf.org> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/saag
- Re: [tsvwg] [saag] TSVWG WGLC: draft-ietf-tsvwg-t… Christian Huitema
- Re: [tsvwg] [saag] TSVWG WGLC: draft-ietf-tsvwg-t… Joe Touch
- Re: [tsvwg] [saag] TSVWG WGLC: draft-ietf-tsvwg-t… Gorry Fairhurst
- Re: [tsvwg] [saag] TSVWG WGLC: draft-ietf-tsvwg-t… Joe Touch
- Re: [tsvwg] [saag] TSVWG WGLC: draft-ietf-tsvwg-t… Gorry Fairhurst
- Re: [tsvwg] [saag] TSVWG WGLC: draft-ietf-tsvwg-t… Joe Touch
- Re: [tsvwg] [saag] TSVWG WGLC: draft-ietf-tsvwg-t… Gorry Fairhurst
- Re: [tsvwg] [saag] TSVWG WGLC: draft-ietf-tsvwg-t… Joe Touch
- Re: [tsvwg] [saag] TSVWG WGLC: draft-ietf-tsvwg-t… Gorry Fairhurst
- Re: [tsvwg] [saag] TSVWG WGLC: draft-ietf-tsvwg-t… Tom Herbert
- Re: [tsvwg] [saag] TSVWG WGLC: draft-ietf-tsvwg-t… Tom Herbert
- Re: [tsvwg] [saag] TSVWG WGLC: draft-ietf-tsvwg-t… Joe Touch
- Re: [tsvwg] [saag] TSVWG WGLC: draft-ietf-tsvwg-t… Scharf, Michael
- Re: [tsvwg] [saag] TSVWG WGLC: draft-ietf-tsvwg-t… Joe Touch
- Re: [tsvwg] [saag] TSVWG WGLC: draft-ietf-tsvwg-t… Scharf, Michael
- Re: [tsvwg] [saag] TSVWG WGLC: draft-ietf-tsvwg-t… Lars Eggert
- Re: [tsvwg] [saag] TSVWG WGLC: draft-ietf-tsvwg-t… Scharf, Michael
- Re: [tsvwg] [saag] TSVWG WGLC: draft-ietf-tsvwg-t… Christian Huitema
- Re: [tsvwg] [saag] TSVWG WGLC: draft-ietf-tsvwg-t… Joe Touch
- Re: [tsvwg] [saag] TSVWG WGLC: draft-ietf-tsvwg-t… Scharf, Michael
- Re: [tsvwg] [saag] TSVWG WGLC: draft-ietf-tsvwg-t… Gorry Fairhurst
- Re: [tsvwg] [saag] TSVWG WGLC: draft-ietf-tsvwg-t… Christian Huitema
- Re: [tsvwg] [saag] TSVWG WGLC: draft-ietf-tsvwg-t… Lubashev, Igor
- Re: [tsvwg] [saag] TSVWG WGLC: draft-ietf-tsvwg-t… Lubashev, Igor
- Re: [tsvwg] [saag] TSVWG WGLC: draft-ietf-tsvwg-t… Tom Herbert
- Re: [tsvwg] [saag] TSVWG WGLC: draft-ietf-tsvwg-t… Tom Herbert
- Re: [tsvwg] [saag] TSVWG WGLC: draft-ietf-tsvwg-t… Lubashev, Igor
- Re: [tsvwg] [saag] TSVWG WGLC: draft-ietf-tsvwg-t… Lubashev, Igor
- Re: [tsvwg] [saag] TSVWG WGLC: draft-ietf-tsvwg-t… Tom Herbert
- Re: [tsvwg] [saag] TSVWG WGLC: draft-ietf-tsvwg-t… Roni Even (A)
- Re: [tsvwg] [saag] TSVWG WGLC: draft-ietf-tsvwg-t… Lubashev, Igor
- Re: [tsvwg] [saag] TSVWG WGLC: draft-ietf-tsvwg-t… Tom Herbert
- Re: [tsvwg] [saag] TSVWG WGLC: draft-ietf-tsvwg-t… Christian Huitema
- Re: [tsvwg] [saag] TSVWG WGLC: draft-ietf-tsvwg-t… Kuhn Nicolas
- Re: [tsvwg] [saag] TSVWG WGLC: draft-ietf-tsvwg-t… philip.eardley
- Re: [tsvwg] [saag] TSVWG WGLC: draft-ietf-tsvwg-t… Mirja Kuehlewind
- Re: [tsvwg] TSVWG WGLC: draft-ietf-tsvwg-transpor… emile.stephan
- Re: [tsvwg] [saag] TSVWG WGLC: draft-ietf-tsvwg-t… Lubashev, Igor
- Re: [tsvwg] TSVWG WGLC: draft-ietf-tsvwg-transpor… Peter Gutmann
- Re: [tsvwg] TSVWG WGLC: draft-ietf-tsvwg-transpor… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [tsvwg] [OPSAWG] TSVWG WGLC: draft-ietf-tsvwg… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [tsvwg] TSVWG WGLC: draft-ietf-tsvwg-transpor… Peter Gutmann
- Re: [tsvwg] [OPSAWG] TSVWG WGLC: draft-ietf-tsvwg… Joe Touch
- Re: [tsvwg] [OPSAWG] TSVWG WGLC: draft-ietf-tsvwg… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [tsvwg] [OPSAWG] TSVWG WGLC: draft-ietf-tsvwg… Gorry Fairhurst
- Re: [tsvwg] [OPSAWG] TSVWG WGLC: draft-ietf-tsvwg… S Moonesamy
- Re: [tsvwg] [OPSAWG] TSVWG WGLC: draft-ietf-tsvwg… Colin Perkins
- Re: [tsvwg] [OPSAWG] TSVWG WGLC: draft-ietf-tsvwg… S Moonesamy
- Re: [tsvwg] [OPSAWG] TSVWG WGLC: draft-ietf-tsvwg… Ian Swett
- Re: [tsvwg] [ippm] [OPSAWG] TSVWG WGLC: draft-iet… MORTON, ALFRED C (AL)