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Re: [tsvwg] Codecs, circuit breakers and TDM PWs

Ingemar Johansson S <ingemar.s.johansson@ericsson.com> Thu, 13 January 2022 14:22 UTC

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From: Ingemar Johansson S <ingemar.s.johansson@ericsson.com>
To: Kyle Rose <krose@krose.org>, "Black, David" <David.Black@dell.com>
CC: "tsvwg@ietf.org" <tsvwg@ietf.org>, Ingemar Johansson S <ingemar.s.johansson@ericsson.com>
Thread-Topic: [tsvwg] Codecs, circuit breakers and TDM PWs
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Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 14:22:28 +0000
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Subject: Re: [tsvwg] Codecs, circuit breakers and TDM PWs
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Hi

 

Not sure how relevant it is in this context. 

 

For 3GPP systems, also rate-adaptive video needs to respond in pretty much the same way as TCP to avoid excessive queue build up or packet loss. 

 

The plain reason is that the 3GPP systems allocate system resources between users in a reasonably fair fashion (such as round-robin scheduling). 

 

Therefore, it is not very helpful for rate-adaptive video to be slow  with the rate decrease as the end result will only be (very) high latency.

RFC8298 is designed based on this constraint.

 

Regards
Ingemar

 

From: tsvwg <tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Kyle Rose
Sent: den 4 januari 2022 16:05
To: Black, David <David.Black@dell.com>
Cc: tsvwg@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [tsvwg] Codecs, circuit breakers and TDM PWs

 

On Mon, Jan 3, 2022 at 5:17 PM Black, David <David.Black@dell.com <mailto:David.Black@dell.com> > wrote:

Beyond this, somehow, I don't see how a codec down-shift to a lower transmission rate can be characterized as a 'circuit-breaker' – I expect a circuit breaker to break the circuit.  In contrast …

 

To this limited point, do we need a more precise taxonomy for responsiveness? There seem to be two dimensions of congestion responsiveness: latency and granularity. TCP does well on both: it will respond in just over 1 RTT, and it can get arbitrarily slow. Rate-adaptive video is also responsive, but more slowly (players don't downgrade immediately, but switch after some loss threshold is crossed) and with a non-zero minimum (maybe the lowest available bitrate is 500 Kb/s). But the latter is usually described as non-responsive, presumably because it relies on the application layer to respond, rather than the transport layer, with transport-layer CC backing off much more quickly.

 

(Multicast, by contrast, is properly classified as non-responsive because the receiver has only binary control over individual flows: the hose is either open or closed. So congestion control is limited to circuit breaking on individual flows.)

 

It seems like we need a more fine-grained taxonomy for responsiveness, and in designing for low-latency transports admit the existence of congestion controls at higher layers that we should leverage rather than ignore.

 

Kyle

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