[tsvwg] L4S and the RACK requirement
Wesley Eddy <wes@mti-systems.com> Tue, 12 February 2019 18:00 UTC
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From: Wesley Eddy <wes@mti-systems.com>
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Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2019 13:00:47 -0500
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Subject: [tsvwg] L4S and the RACK requirement
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In discussion among the TSVWG chairs, we are concerned about lack of consensus on the requirement currently in L4S ID draft ( https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-tsvwg-ecn-l4s-id-05 ) regarding the need for RACK-like behavior in a transport that uses the L4S queue. The statement in the draft is: A scalable congestion control MUST detect loss by counting in units of time, which is scalable, and MUST NOT count in units of packets (as in the 3 DupACK rule of traditional TCP), which is not scalable (see Appendix A.1.7 for rationale). By saying this, it seems to rule out DCTCP and some other existing code that might be used with L4S (and DCTCP discussed in the draft as an example scalable transport, even though it violates this rule (?)). This seems like a bit of a problem for making L4S usable. I guess maybe TCP Prague code fixes this, but isn't as widely available yet? The discussion in the appendix is good at explaining what I think the real goal is here, which is to enable major reduction in latency from link-layer (or other underlying transport network) re-ordering buffers. We want that in order to meet the low latency goals, which makes total sense. So, my question is whether the "MUST" is really more appropriately turned into a "SHOULD" guidance? Given that we expect reordering to be possible (and maybe normal) over hops supporting L4S, then the congestion control algorithm SHOULD have mechanisms that allow it to perform robustly. If it doesn't, it only hurts itself, not any other traffic, so there seems to be no real reason to say "MUST" (someone violating it doesn't break the Internet or cause interop issues, etc). As I understand it, this would allow the examples like DCTCP to be relevant for use with L4S as well. Does Bob or anyone else have thoughts on this?
- [tsvwg] L4S and the RACK requirement Wesley Eddy
- Re: [tsvwg] L4S and the RACK requirement Yuchung Cheng
- Re: [tsvwg] L4S and the RACK requirement Black, David
- Re: [tsvwg] L4S and the RACK requirement Yuchung Cheng
- Re: [tsvwg] L4S and the RACK requirement Black, David
- Re: [tsvwg] L4S and the RACK requirement Scheffenegger, Richard
- Re: [tsvwg] L4S and the RACK requirement lloyd.wood
- Re: [tsvwg] L4S and the RACK requirement Bob Briscoe
- Re: [tsvwg] L4S and the RACK requirement Bob Briscoe
- Re: [tsvwg] L4S and the RACK requirement Yuchung Cheng
- Re: [tsvwg] L4S and the RACK requirement Wesley Eddy
- Re: [tsvwg] Linux DCTCP response to loss (was: L4… Bob Briscoe
- Re: [tsvwg] L4S and the RACK requirement Bob Briscoe
- Re: [tsvwg] L4S and the RACK requirement Neal Cardwell