Re: [tsvwg] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-heist-tsvwg-ecn-deployment-observations-02.txt

Gorry Fairhurst <gorry@erg.abdn.ac.uk> Tue, 09 March 2021 14:42 UTC

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From: Gorry Fairhurst <gorry@erg.abdn.ac.uk>
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Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2021 14:42:15 +0000
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To: Pete Heist <pete@heistp.net>
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Subject: Re: [tsvwg] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-heist-tsvwg-ecn-deployment-observations-02.txt
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I think I was one of the people wondering this, so thanks for this:

> On 8 Mar 2021, at 22:19, Pete Heist <pete@heistp.net> wrote:
> 
> I'm following up in this thread to one question that's come up- why is
> an ISP deploying fq_codel in its backhaul?
> 
> In short, this ISP encourages research and experiments by its members,
> and this was a way to both see how much congestion exists, and attempt
> to manage it with AQM when needed. Experiments with fq_codel were
> started a couple of years ago, and I helped add support for it to their
> custom router interface early last year. However, it's only actually
> been enabled on a couple of routers, because:
> - it takes a while to update routers in this environment
> - some of the routers run kernels prior to fq_codel support
> - congestion doesn't usually last long enough to give it much urgency,
> and sometimes it's fixed by just adding capacity
> 
> IMO, fq_codel isn't ideal in this situation. When there actually is
> congestion to manage, flow-fairness means that one user can dominate
> the queue with many flows, which is exactly one of the problems we'd
> like to avoid. Host fairness could improve on this, or better yet,
> member fairness using the member database, as members can have more
> than one IP/MAC. But, fq_codel is what's available now, and generally
> usable enough in this case to get started with AQM.
> 
Interesting, and always helpful to see a little more of why specific deployments take place,

Gorry

>> On Mon, 2021-03-08 at 11:09 +0100, Pete Heist wrote:
>> -------- Forwarded Message --------
>> Subject: New Version Notification for draft-heist-tsvwg-ecn-
>> deployment-
>> observations-02.txt
>> Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2021 01:57:07 -0800
>> 
>>> A new version of I-D, draft-heist-tsvwg-ecn-deployment-
>>> observations-
>>> 02.txt
>>> has been successfully submitted by Peter G. Heist and posted to the
>>> IETF repository.
>>> 
>>> Name:           draft-heist-tsvwg-ecn-deployment-observations
>>> Revision:       02
>>> Title:          Explicit Congestion Notification (ECN) Deployment
>>> Observations
>>> Document date:  2021-03-08
>>> Group:          Individual Submission
>>> Pages:          30
>>> URL:           
>>> https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-heist-tsvwg-ecn-deployment-observations-02.txt
>>> Status:        
>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-heist-tsvwg-ecn-deployment-observations/
>>> Html:          
>>> https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-heist-tsvwg-ecn-deployment-observations-02.html
>>> Htmlized:      
>>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-heist-tsvwg-ecn-deployment-observations-02
>>> Diff:          
>>> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-heist-tsvwg-ecn-deployment-observations-02
>>> 
>>> Abstract:
>>>    This note presents data gathered at an Internet Service
>>> Provider's
>>>    gateway on the observed deployment and usage of ECN.  Relevant
>>> IP
>>>    counter and flow tracking data was collected and analyzed for
>>> TCP  
>>> and other protocols.
>> 
>> A few updates in this version:
>> 
>> * Improved statistics for the separated "known" and "unknown" AQMs.
>> 
>> * Clarified the detection method for possible AQMs.
>> 
>> * Added possibility of QUIC-ECN traffic in non-TCP data.
>> 
>> Pete
>> 
>> 
>