IETF Logo Mail Archive

Re: [tsvwg] L4S drafts: Next Steps

Bob Briscoe <ietf@bobbriscoe.net> Thu, 11 March 2021 22:07 UTC

Return-Path: <ietf@bobbriscoe.net>
X-Original-To: tsvwg@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: tsvwg@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B2EE3A0EEE for <tsvwg@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 11 Mar 2021 14:07:53 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.433
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.433 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=bobbriscoe.net
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8YVMWObQKm4b for <tsvwg@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 11 Mar 2021 14:07:51 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-ssdrsserver2.hosting.co.uk (mail-ssdrsserver2.hosting.co.uk [185.185.84.51]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 472283A0EE6 for <tsvwg@ietf.org>; Thu, 11 Mar 2021 14:07:51 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bobbriscoe.net; s=default; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type: In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Date:Message-ID:From:References:Cc:To:Subject:Sender :Reply-To:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From: Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help: List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=pH2VDumK7dVxJ4J8BbhMKn9gb8h3q8NeogG8XLPnxWI=; b=gZQMXNH5pm51T39k069jnLvc0d hotsHhnVA/+70re3cx44ycE+gHc2+6F/7n7bxPjK/gyhcAu+6na6j/Lq5XmqLMyoIXsbi4d199Et/ cYbURCuLPhxEOEnixUO6CVu7sSZ1mIIqwuSs3/EFtkgFRIUxKBkiYtvUn3jtzUmPmMmTQ84TiuKmo VOXRqrmTJTgY0dSpOHqvf5hiZjtuHBCrxVW+tuBpVtJO34IalIxRECIRZGlTBlaFtWKRU0M+djGsI YLfHShsr9qowKw5YHzob/Dxk3f6wUW2AQowhRCdiedY3V/AkLrUie0RwkMnMEzGUmn+HIS7rNIdD+ 6sjvLXig==;
Received: from 67.153.238.178.in-addr.arpa ([178.238.153.67]:50250 helo=[192.168.1.11]) by ssdrsserver2.hosting.co.uk with esmtpsa (TLS1.2) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (Exim 4.93) (envelope-from <ietf@bobbriscoe.net>) id 1lKTTC-0002Qb-Ca; Thu, 11 Mar 2021 22:07:50 +0000
To: Jonathan Morton <chromatix99@gmail.com>
Cc: "Black, David" <David.Black@dell.com>, "tsvwg@ietf.org" <tsvwg@ietf.org>
References: <MN2PR19MB4045FAC079C74FC262005BF483F10@MN2PR19MB4045.namprd19.prod.outlook.com> <92283815-f81a-ba86-fe63-7925e23e31f6@bobbriscoe.net> <MN2PR19MB404513C22FE4025C31261BC783CC0@MN2PR19MB4045.namprd19.prod.outlook.com> <5d8f0031-1aee-9e41-7860-04a46a89607e@bobbriscoe.net> <MN2PR19MB4045305CA7D5673C554BCBA383919@MN2PR19MB4045.namprd19.prod.outlook.com> <ee0c9cd2-608c-ef69-ef84-892cd4f17204@bobbriscoe.net> <MN2PR19MB404522F073A03BA2F866604E83909@MN2PR19MB4045.namprd19.prod.outlook.com> <83559d3f-6004-118a-cde2-ec999fc8c483@bobbriscoe.net> <DE5B87E4-DD60-435E-80AD-01C09F13D173@gmail.com>
From: Bob Briscoe <ietf@bobbriscoe.net>
Message-ID: <375666b8-1123-a635-1cd6-eb496835369a@bobbriscoe.net>
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2021 22:07:48 +0000
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.7.1
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <DE5B87E4-DD60-435E-80AD-01C09F13D173@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format="flowed"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Language: en-GB
X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report
X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - ssdrsserver2.hosting.co.uk
X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org
X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12]
X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - bobbriscoe.net
X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: ssdrsserver2.hosting.co.uk: authenticated_id: in@bobbriscoe.net
X-Authenticated-Sender: ssdrsserver2.hosting.co.uk: in@bobbriscoe.net
X-Source:
X-Source-Args:
X-Source-Dir:
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tsvwg/zxtLMu1KTBVX2j6BFfMlJMU-vnA>
Subject: Re: [tsvwg] L4S drafts: Next Steps
X-BeenThere: tsvwg@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Transport Area Working Group <tsvwg.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/tsvwg>, <mailto:tsvwg-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/tsvwg/>
List-Post: <mailto:tsvwg@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:tsvwg-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tsvwg>, <mailto:tsvwg-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2021 22:07:53 -0000

Jonathan,

The concern is requiring unnecessary work to prove things that are 
"bring me a different rock" exercises.


Bob

On 11/03/2021 21:35, Jonathan Morton wrote:
>> On 11 Mar, 2021, at 11:18 pm, Bob Briscoe <ietf@bobbriscoe.net> wrote:
>>
>> Where does the concern about transport protocol independence come from? No-one expects that to be a problem for L4S implementers.
> If it's not expected to be a problem, then there shouldn't be any difficulty meeting the requirement, should there?
>
> I think the concern arises because there is not yet even *one* complete implementation that meets *all* of the necessary requirements (including, for example, good behaviour when encountering an RFC-3168 AQM).  This points to the likely difficulty of a second implementer's task in replicating the feat.
>
>   - Jonathan Morton

-- 
________________________________________________________________
Bob Briscoe                               http://bobbriscoe.net/

v2.23.0 | Report a Bug | By Email